>The winter stores have to be fed to the bees, which is time consuming and costly. True but what is the cost of a winter deadout? For the last month and for the next month I am checking, testing, combining and certainly feeding if needed to prepare hives for winter. Startling fact: Hives going to winter in California need more winter stores than those wintering in Missouri! >It is not the number of bees in a colony that gains the maximum crop, but the number of bee foraging journeys. Interesting hypothesis and one my friend Allen Dick agrees with. Interesting! I go with the old masters on the point. quote Lloyd Seachrist (USDA top gun) and author of the book "Honey Getting" "Fill a box with bees and the bees will fill the box with honey" I keep hives with high populations of bees. A hobby beekeeper I had sold his first two hives called to tell me a storm had blown over a couple of my hives. He said he had never seen a hive so strong. Said he was only able to get one set back up before he quit. Its no wonder my friend Keith says he does not need smoke. Leave alone hives normally has around 30,000 bee populations. Try working a two queen hive with an honest 100,000 population without a smoker? My production hives run 60,000 plus in two deep and without supers will not fit in both boxes when supers are pulled. I have learned a method to maintain the 60,000 population even when a flow is not on which is what I do if I need super strong hives later on. Also got methods to lose old bees and reduce the hive polulation fast if needed. Without beekeeper manuipulations (feeding & open brood nest) hives do not reach max populations. My years of Florida beekeeping has shown bees need tricked into build up for a major flow! Otherwise the bees keep a small cluster and ONLY build up during a flow raising useless bees which will become foragers AFTER (in most cases) the honey flow is OVER! Research of (Farrar)has shown that one large hive will out produce the same number of bees in two hives . The reasoning is mostly to do with care of brood is easier with the large hive and more bees are free to forage than in the two smaller hives. The evaporation of honey is easier with the large hive. Farrar made other less important points but the above two were most important. >A tough bee that can work longer hours per day and still live for more working days than an Italian bee can gather a crop just as large, but with many fewer bees in the box. The above is not what the research has shown in the U.S.. I have never heard of a bee refered to as *tough*. Prolific trumps living longer in my book! The Italian bee is known among commercial beekeepers the world over as their number one choice and the world's top producer of a honey crop. To argue otherwise is foolish in my opinion. I have got and keep NWC and carniolans. Not even a close second! Bees are bees and they are inclined to hoard honey! I make the most of the hoarding behavior (if I want the honey). On A.mm: Some of my my first hives in Florida were A.mm.. Although Dave might say these were not the *pure A.mm* the old timers said they were. I had hives of so called A.mm in Kansas and also in Missouri. Kept mostly as a novelty as they had many undesirable traits. Tracheal mites took the last few hives in the middle 80's. All were poor honey producers! Prone to sting and the hardest bees to work on a cloudy day. Also I never kept A.mm hives in shade! These are only my observations and others could vary! In the late 50's through the 80's queens were sold in the U.S. as A.mm. From my year on the Irish beekeeping list I realize saying unflattering things about their beloved A.mm is not popular but those are my observations! Even our beloved Brother Adams views on A.mm was frowned upon in the Irish list! Brother Adam thought that A.mm in its pure state needed improvement. I concur! When was the last time you tried a bee other than A.mm Dave? Bob -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info ---