----- Original Message ----- From: <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Super Varroa > Regarding the FANTASTIC discussion between Keith Malone in Alaska, and Bob > Harrison in Missouri concerning "SUPER VARROA" vs. feral bee survival. > > Why aren't both of you "young men" in Reno, NV at the annual meeting of the > ABF HI George and All First I think they are busy. Talking to researchers and understanding the REAL complexities is different issue. How can you talk about Honeybee Genetics , without reading Tom Rinderers book on the subject. Its deep. It took me 3 years of study on genetics myself before I could really follow the book. > Now, Keith or Bob, before you "fly off the handle", why don't you swap homes > for > a year > The vast amount of verbiage from both of you (and I admire each of you) > provides > no solution to the varroa problem for the average reader of the Bee-L. Now lets look at the real problem.. It is genetics. I wonder why Bob does not mention the white line of Russian stock. I know the answer.It was Russian queen aceptance to the italian bees. I asked Mark Winston about testesting for the pherome problem. The answer was too many variables in the queen pheromones of any given race. Then he sent me hard copy of all of his work on the subject.Then I started to learn about the real complexitys of only one part of the genetics of the honeybee.We are not talking about just a few organic acids and percentage of each. I cheated and would put some Italian queen substance on the queen in a cage and watch. The workers would stay around her for about 45 minutes. Then acted as if she was not in the hive. Now the real big picture. and George knows it. Because of the variance of the penotype in the genes, bees will act differently in a changed enviornment. I watched that in a small scale last year. Sea level , 2,000 feet and at 4,000 feet with the same Russian stock I have been working with since they first came out. I have a very good mix of genes. I have been putting the info in my computers for years. I can track about anything. , even infared shot taked by satilites. of my different areas. Its good to have connections at the U and sell my honey to the Microsoft people in Remond for the last 10 years. To talk about mite control with just a russian stock is a joke. You can have some Russians that will work well in California , but not good in Washington. I know from experience. We are too young in the process to have a cureall for the mite with Russian stock. No matter what it is. Two years ago I did 180% requeening in one year with russian stock. Why? Hygenic behavior. I test for it all the time. If they are not hygenic they are gone. Last summer I found some mites in drone brood and a couple on some workers.. I went back 2 weeks latter and I could not find a mite anyplace. Not in drone brood or on the bees. But they were all down under the screen. All my hive are on screens. Science and the researchers need more money to work this problem out. Russian stock is the first step. But the genetics of the stock needs to be looked at very closly.Gene loci is very important. Not just having the gene. So if someone thinks they have the magic bullet with Russian stock to fix all the mites have a lack of knowledge of genetics. It takes a long time and work to get a very good fix. Bees are very complex and so are the mites. A lot of work has been done on the mite. You have to understand your adversarry. > I end this L-O-N-G diatribe with a hope that all readers will depart from the > so-called "findings" of perhaps highly successful and very fine gentlemen in > the problems of beekeeping (which are MANY), and rely upon scientific endeavor > by bee scientists, IN SPITE OF THEIR UNDERFUNDING. > As in most other things of life's ventures, KNOWLEDGE about a subject that is > gained by scientists usually winds up as the "winner" after many conflicts > along > the way to success. > George Imirie Thank You George Roy Nettlebeck :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::