>> If life is a dream, who is the dreamer? To apply *think* to "conscious" is using Cartesian, limited thinking. To meditate *may* bring a sense of Consciousness closer. Like watching bees. * What I meant was our conception of what it *means to be conscious* is just that: a conception (a thought). What it *actually means to be conscious* is another story, one where there is even less consensus. >> Funny - to say we project human experience and descriptive terms on to bees does not imply the attribution is false. Like projecting on to other people - what we project may be true, even if less strongly than we think. There is something there to catch the projection. * Exactly what I was saying. Simply because some projections are wrong, does not mean that they all are. But what I really meant was that it is OK to speculate about animal consciousness; in doing so we may approach the actual. >> If you have a dog, you know pure gladness - how I would like that much in my life!! * If one has bees, one can also know gladness! I think that when it is sunny and hot and the nectar is flowing from heaven, they dance for joy.