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BEE-L  July 2011

BEE-L July 2011

Subject:

Re: Hives full of honey, but no bees

From:

Bob Harrison <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 2 Jul 2011 21:10:27 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (162 lines)

Hello Dick and All,

>     You make the investigation sound cursory. As usual there is some truth
> in what you say, but there is more to know. I was there.

I was there also! Two years before you guys. Commercial beeks tell me all 
the details of their operations but the USDA only what they want to share.

I was in the background when the first small hive beetles were found in 
Florida. Many researchers asked H. Bell who the guy he was always talking to 
was.

In the first place,
> it was not the first instance of CCD.Ca was in distress already. Jerry B.
> had been there (Fl) and had left for Ca. (where the other cases of CCD 
> were
> being investigated.) Dennis vanEnglesdorp was heading toward Ca on 
> finishing
> Fl.
>
I have been involved with U.S. beekeeping for over fifty years. It takes 
around two years to get action from the U.S.D.A. and as always almost 
impossible to get today (unless the new media is at the problem then they 
come).


> Dave H. spent much of his time with a phone to his ear.

Who was he talking to when he had all those experts around? Ever ask?

He was in touch with
> many sources. His theory at the time was that it began in the Midwest and
> moved east.

In my area.? Wait till I next talk to Dave!
If so then you would need to contact a beekeeper with experience with 
Midwest beekeeping..

I respect Daves opinion and have his cell number in my wallet but the 
problem *IN MY OPINION*
(as no one knows for sure as few before 2006 samples exist) started in 
another part of the U.S, but the beeks from the area will argue the point 
(which can not be proven either way and old history any way)


>
> It's true that nearby drop sites were unaffected.

Exactly whaty I said!


 It's not true that they
> weren't looked at.

I also spoke with those beeks and they said little attention nor samples 
taken and most only talked to.

> The hives looked at belonged to 6 or so beeks and were widely separated.
> Each yard contained deteriorating, stable and recovering bees.

I disagree as I also observed these hives and the bees were in very good 
shape for being transported and "deteriorating, stable ( ????) and 
recovering (????) bees were certainly in the minortity.

 It's not like
> healthy bees weren't looked at. Of particular interest were the recovering
> ones.

I do not understand what you mean. Recovering from what? At the time you 
were in my home state of Florida observing and taking samples was all that 
was going on.
None of us knew what we were looking at mainly because we did not have all 
the pices of the puzzle (which might be why the USDA was brought in.) Nosema 
ceranae discovery was big news as was kasmir bee virus .

>
> A thousand frames were irradiated, to see if a pathogen could be killed.

Sometimes I wonder why I bother with the internet. I was asked by Dave to 
send hives for irridation to help with costs as were many beeks. You are 
jumping all over the place in the discussion. I am well aware of the 
USDA/Hackenburg experiement which proved little (if anything) as the USDA 
did not even *know* what they were trying to kill. Treating those boxes cost 
big money and Dave said he felt (next year ABF meeting) that might have not 
been worth the cost as hive loss the next fall was similar in all those 
boxes.

 At
> first look those bees housed on that comb looked good. Since dozens of
> radiation facilities have not appeared ...I assume it was a dead end.

Too expensive for Florida and as I said above hive health the next fall was 
poor in all the boxes.

> To give you an idea of the variety of subject hives:  one beek told me 
> that
> he had used Amitraz, Fluvalinate and Cumaphos and still had mites. All had
> used something.

At the time most beeks in Florida had used all three of the above legal 
treatments. Mitacur (amatraz),
Apistan (fluvalinate) & coumaphos ( checkmite)

As has most of the beeks from the major beekeeping areas of the world as 
most of the areas have had these products although with different names and 
of course fluvalinate & amatraz were able to be bought in bulk ( not 
strips).

All the above is in the archives if you do a search of the archives using my 
name and the subject.

2004 was the first year (in Florida) of what Jerry named as CCD. By the fall 
of 2004 the largest beeks had confirmed the problem was linked to three 
virus in Florida ( confirmed by Brenda Ball and Norman Carrick of the U.K. 
virus research) . We knew we were seeing virus issues because varroa control 
was hard to get (at the time) and we found plenty of nosema spores but we 
assumed nosema apis.

The curious and most puzzling aspect was our samples (2004) sent to the U.K. 
(yes we bypassed Jeff Pettis) never turned up Kashmir Bee virus which was 
found in 100% of Dave Hackenbergs samples.

So. (listen carefully Dick) we concluded Dave picked up Kashmir bee virus in 
almonds or other than Florida. We will never know for sure but we feel Dave 
brought the Kashmir bee virus (widespread in Canada) with him.

In 2006 we learned about nosema ceranae. We suspected and had days of 
discussion on the subject in Florida but thought we were looking at nosema 
apis spores under the scope. After all how could the USDA not be aware of 
nosema ceranae in hives from one end of the U.S. to the other? We were very 
aware of the Nosema ceranae issue in Spain.
I suspected  Kashmir bee virus (as the speedy bee had reported recently huge 
bee loss in the peace river district of Canada) but our samples did not turn 
up the virus. I also suspected nosema ceranae might be in the U.S. and we 
did place a call to Beltsville asking if any had ever been found in the U.S. 
and if they were looking. The lab said none in the U.S. and yes they had 
been looking.

Enough for now Dick. Getting tired and need to go to bed. I am on a heart 
monitor and oxygen at night. Better listen well as my stories will only be 
found in the archives before long I am afraid.
I have no agenda other than getting *the rest of the story out*. I have been 
in the hospital three times since January and will soon be forced to give up 
actual hive work I am afraid.
Both bee magazines ask for articles and I have many pending but doubt will 
ever finish now.

Sincerely,
Bob Harrison
Midwest beekeeper
Always seems to turn up when major beekeeping problems happen.
Dick and I have first hand knowledge which will cause me to speak out and 
share.

             ***********************************************
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