Randy,  get Jeff to participate here.  Not fair to debate one sided. I didn’t pick on him,  just voiced a dissenting position. 


I fully understand pesticide laws.  I am a licensed applicator.  If we classify neonics seed coatings as a pesticide  application as requested,  then It would require a permit  to apply in most states.  Without that,  there would be no point in changing the status as it stands.

"State law requires anyone in Illinois applying general-use and restricted-use pesticides in the course of employment be licensed. Persons applying restricted-use pesticides on property they own or control must have a private applicator license. Persons applying general-use pesticides on their own property are exempt from licensing requirements."

Taken from the website if you care to look. I am quite certain this rule would apply in almost all the states. 

So Jeffs assertion I am wrong is a bit misplaced.  You might make a case the "farmer who owns the land" is exempt.  That’s correct,  but that would mean no hired hands,  no sons, and no rental ground would apply, so if the Farm was in a trust, or a siblings name or many other options,  you would need a license. Only the direct title landowner could run the planter. Not sure where Jeff Lives so I can't check his home states rules.



As for trespassing,  twisting the words.  We rely on the largess,  and do in fact trespass, as written permission is required in many states,  you must ask permission to access another's land. We all know darn few of us goes around to all the landowners, only a select few times would that be remotely possible.  And we also know that some would say no.  
If you read May's article you would also know that several times in the past,  the courts have ruled bees as trespassers.  We have had this debate before, and no need to repeat. And no need for a legal definition,  we know!  We know but want to play word games and say its "not trespassing" in a legal sense?
 
But we are parsing words!  We don't own the land our bees forage on in 99% of the cases.  Bees range far and wide,  and if we pick a battle with Farmers and the EPA as we have been doing,  in the long run I suspect strongly, we will lose.  I saw it with legal liability on hunting and fishing/swimming. I am not interested in picking a fight so some people win now,  understanding that the war in the future may be lost.


I understand so far,  Jeff has had the bully pulpit and filed suit as is his right.  What is missing is just how many of us take the other side.  A darn lot of us, do not participate because we believe in what the EPA is doing,  and have some faith in them. I for one am darn sure the people at the EPA know a lot more about the ups and downs and issues than I ever will. I chose to defer to their judgment.  So far as the world goes our EPA has been doing a good job,  I am not quite at the point I think I need to use the court, and public opinion to get them do things my way. I don't believe they are "in the ditch".  Jeff did what he and others thought was right. Nothing wrong with that, he got  his day in court, on more than one occasion.
 
If I understand correctly Jeff is concerned there is a reporting loophole. Fair enough. Work to close the loophole in how reports are classified or recorded.  Heck  that can be done on a state level, they would have more luck pushing the EPA to record bee kills than we will with the courts.  Personally,  what I know of the reporting system,  it does need some work. 

Unfortunately it seems in beekeeping  that many who do not speak, as we don’t agree  seem to get trampled. When we do speak, it seems that our opinions  must be argued instead of respected.

In this case, the suit was heard,  and lost.  Some of us are pleased with that choice,  others not. My goal is that those who were not involved or up to speed realize that there are 2 sides to the debate, we are all free to decide which side we fall on.



Charles

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