Hi Jim and all:

> http://bee-quick.com/reprints/imd/Schmuck_2004.pdf
 
It certainly seems from this paper that Suchail et al's
figures are out of line with other results.

However, to summarize the survey of investigators
that Schmuck lists, the NOLEC (no observed lethal
effects concentrations) from different investigations
using lab feeding are (each number=one paper):

4 ppb, 24 ppb, 48 ppb, 10 ppb, 10 ppb, 0.1 ppb
from chronic dietary toxicity studies.

From tunnel and field feeding studies (chronic):

100 ppb, 20 ppb, and >20 ppb.

So, while 20 ppb (seems roughly a middle figure)
is well below the 140 ppb for acute LD (or 
192 if we take your average) it shows that the
chronic toxicity is much lower (one order of 
magnitude) than the acute.

But more importantly, as regards the "precautionary"
principle,  it is very close to what the amounts
found in pollen and nectar from seed treated
plants are (usually in the 3 to 10 ppb range).  I
can give references if you like, but it is also
referenced in the "risk of systemics" paper.

Also, these numbers that Schmuck gives are
NOLEC (no observed LETHAL effect conc.).  The
numbers for NOEC (no observed effect conc.)
are lower.

Stan

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