On 8 Sep 99, at 11:57, Anthony N Morgan wrote:

> So why, if this is what David is actually saying, should an emergency
> queen and a grafted queen produced from eggs from the same mother be
> different ie. regressive/non-regressive (using the term as defined by
> David)?? One must assume that David (as he has several times recommended)
> removes capped queen cells on day 3 or 4 to ensure that the emergency
> queens are NOT produced from "mature" larvae (incidentally I hate the term
> grub). Input please!

This is the very reason I raised these points in the first place,
discussion. If I already had the answers I wouldn't raise the
question. Unlike some I'm not here to polish my ego, thank you for
avoiding personalities Tony.
        There has to be something missing in those few hours where the older
larvae are selected  by the bees. Make no mistake it is not an
aberration and caused by 'your strain of bees' as some suggested. I
remember my mentor years ago telling me to 'cut those early cells'
that has to be over 40 years ago in the UK.
        Something has been going wrong for a lot of years. I don't remember
any real problem with angry bees when I was a lot younger, but now
it's all you hear about. I am writing to someone in the UK, and the
stories coming back are horrendous, but it appears the authorities
don't seem unduly concerned.
>
> As to agression not being genetic I must admit to being puzzled by this.
> Most references state quite categorically that agression IS genetic and
> related to racial purity. Brown bee - italian bee crosses were called
> vicious by Ruttner for example. BIBBA is working towards "better bees",
> ie. non-regressive in Davids terminology, by trying to breed pure A.m.m (a
> form of positive regression). Comments?

Again all I can repeat, it would appear that something is missing
from queens of 'self made' or 'emergency' queens.
        Another example of this problem. Earlier this year we forced
supersceded an angry hive (the last of them) with a grafted cell,
checked her a few weeks later and found a new queen of our usual
colour, good pattern etc. (we mark all our queens) A few weeks later
we had reason to strip this hive looking for brood as boost. They had
changed the queen yet again and had become nasty. Now that was in a
matter of just a few short weeks, hardly time to have completely
changed all the bees through the usual attrition.
        Perhaps BIBBA's approach might be a good one. We've crossed and
recrossed bees so often to have lost the main physical
characteristics of indiviudual strains and races, these boundaries
are now so blurred as to be almost indistinguishable.




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