> ... this argument about the hive itself being clean or not as having
> anything at all to do with the honey produced from that hive. Some areas
> of the world still have beekeepers who keep bees in hives made of clay
> sealed up with mud and the dung of animals and they consume all the
> honey their bees produce with no reported problems.
 
Thanks for the fresh air, Andy.   I still recall your talking about the
purity (NOT) of beekeeper collected bee pollen for human consumption and
your reasons for no longer participating in the promotion thereof.
---
 
Since the discovery of microbes some few short centuries ago, the
thinking of western man has shifted a little.  What was formerly ascribed
to sin, invisible spirits and vapours very quickly became understood in
terms of tiny -- invisible to the naked eye -- organisms.  Naturally many
of the fear and superstitions attached to the former came through and
became attached to the latter in the public mind.  Sterility is equated
with virtue.  Cleanliness is next to godliness.
 
Nonetheless, even the most coddled infant usually manages to eat at least a
few handsful of dirt before being snatched from the ground and I am sure
that the little pebbles left by sheep and goats and rabbits -- and similar
items found in the backyards of urban children visited by cats and dogs --
have found their way into the mouths of many, if not most, healthy
toddlers -- along with virtually any other suitably sized item within
grasp.  Yet we usually survive and prosper.  Mouthing and even ingesting
foul findings is usually not eventful.  And as an interesting example of
how our prejudices in favour of 'cleanliness' can be suspect , MS is
(counter-intuitively) associated with countries where hygiene is the
'best', not localities where people live in squalor.
 
As it happens, the vast majority of microbes are either benign or offer no
threat to us. The list of dangerous bacteria and moulds is a tiny tiny
subset of the total microbial population.  Most often those that are most
dangerous have to have recently come from a host that shares our shape and
form.  It is the presence of our own kind that is most dangerous to our
health.  Even our pets share very few microbial diseases with us.
 
The idea of eating insects and their products is unattractive to the
westen mind, with almost the sole exception of honey.  The idea of eating
microorganisms and their products is usually restricted to wines and beers
and cheese related items.
 
Bees and humans share no known diseases.  We are very different.  Mice and
other rodents and environmental vectors may introduce contaminants that
could be dangerous, but the likelihood is low.  The major threat to health
is the beekeeper.
 
I suppose we could wonder about mouse urine and feces -- the most common
mamalian contaminants associated with honey, however, I believe that I
have heard that urine is normally sterile.  The feces is not, however.  Is
it a threat?  I don't know.  What I do know is that I have seen it in bee
pollen that has bee cleaned and prepared for market and yet no one died
--or even complained.
 
I also know that my neighbours here go through the fields harvesting
wheat each fall,  and in the process mice, skunks and other animals
occasionally go through the machine and some trace of them must be dumped
in the bin with the grain.  Once the grain is in the bin or on the ground,
the mice run though and leave their evidence, the birds fly over and or
nest above the grain, and then the grain goes to be made into bread or
granola or whatever.  FWIW, I am not sure that enough heat is used in the
many products that contain grains and flour to sterilise.  Yet the
population of humans in our cities and countryside thrives.
 
What am I saying?  I guess I am saying that sterility  --  the goal of
modern food and environmental management -- is a simplistic way of
dealing with a problem.  And moreover I am suggesting it is not the best
approach.  There are many beneficial organisms that are damaged and lost
when a wholesale disinfecting and eradicating approach is used, rather
than a management approach.  I guess I have this belief in common with the
Rodale 'organic' crowd.
 
To me it seems to be  a weak strategy to kill all your friends -- and
strangers too -- because there may be an enemy among them.  Such
solutions are based on fear and ignorance rather than strength and
wisdom.  Although they have obvious beneficial immediate effects in many
cases and offer a way to deal ad hoc, I suspect that in the long run they
are suboptimal and firther I believe that far wiser and more subtle
management can be used to advantage.
 
At any rate, the whole question of the 'cleanliness' and sterility of the
hive interior seems irrelevant to me.  Every day I breathe in air that
includes samples of everything that is volatile or can produce dust (or
ride on dust) in my environment. It is far from sterile. I trust that the
same air passes through the beehives.   I bite my fingernails. They are
clean, but not not sterile.  What concerns me is this:  Are there any
things naturally present in the hive that I may not reasonably be expected
to be able to handle and remain healthy if they get into the honey?  I
think not.
 
In regard chemical threats, we have Jerry B and his helpers to thank for
researching this, and sharing the results.  It seems that honey is
remarkably free of environmental chemicals.
 
In regard bacterial contamination, it seems that there are few bacteria
that can survive immersion in honey and none that I know of that cause
human disease.  There are some spore forming bacteria that can be a cause
of concern such as the spores that result in botulism.  I wonder about
anthrax and typhoid.  People can carry typhoid and spread it without
getting it themselves.  Can mice?  I don't know if mice get anthrax, but
humans do.  And I believe I've heard that anthrax occasionally breaks out
in South America.  In honey producing regions?  I wonder if there are any
on the list that have knowledge of the very small list of human diseases
that *might* be able to be spread through honey?
 
It seems to me that the chances of dangerous bacterial contamination
occuring in a hive is negligible to zero.  I'm not so sure about the
possibility of something like that happening in the extraction and
bottling.
 
Allen