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Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology <[log in to unmask]>
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Thu, 15 Oct 2009 08:45:07 -0400
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> One top box is really light, 5 frames with bare foundation..... I am afraid they are going starve. 

That is a virtual certainty.  A box like that above the brood is a death trap.  Bees move up over winter and they cannot survive in such a box.  They need drawn comb up there, preferably a few years old, and all frames packed with honey and hopefully pollen.

> The nights are 35 to 20 F around this time of year with the days 40 to 60 F. If I feed with 2:1 syrup will they be able to evaporate it enough so it will not ferment? 

I have seen bees fed syrup all winter in Alberta and they survived.  I am not recommending that -- they did not look very good --but don't worry about that minor detail when you bees are sure to die without feed.  I have fed syrup as late as the last week of October up here at 52 degrees N.  If the bees are any good, they will take a lot of syrup quite quickly.

> Or I have a bunch of shallow super frames that have capped cells in just the center and nectar on the sides, not enough capped to extract is that better to give then than wet supers?

First, remove that light brood box and either place it under the box the bees are in or set it aside until next year.

If you want to feed the shallow supers, place them *under* the brood box.  The bees, if they is any life left in them, should cart the feed up into their home box on warm days.  If they don't there is not much you can do.  

I assume you plan to wrap?  If so wrap this one as soon as you get the good, occupied box on top and the feed under.  Any additional warmth will help them move the stores around.

(Jump in here, anyone)

> Is the temperature to low now for them to make wax on the deeps that are just foundation? 

Yes.

The wet super I am giving them is honey, these incomplete frames are mainly nectar and I was thinking they would not be able to get the moisture out of it plus the cells are not full. 

Don't worry about it, but place that box under, not over, IMO.

> Will putting dry sugar on the inner cover bring a hive like this through the winter get them through the winter?  

I've seen it work, but the results are usually miserable-looking.  Some people in the *south* swear by it.  Remember, up north, any empty space above the cluster is a potential death trap if the bees cluster up there.

> The hive #26 (6 mites / 58 bees) is a swam collected on 8/8 so I think they just did not have enough time to build up. I also of putting their full box back on the hive they came from hoping mother and daughter queens could get along for the winter and share, saving the few frames from the second box for emergency food.

I see.  I'll modify my comments from to above which still apply, but subject to the following:  Late swarms often have an old queen and don't also get well established.  Consider this hive to be a plaything and a distraction from your good hives, and either delegate it to a spare time thing or dispatch it now, either by combining it with another hive or shaking it out, or just letting nature take its course.  With so many mites, combining it may not be a good idea. 

Anyhow, spend your limited time and resources on the hives that are most likely to survive and prosper and provide splits next spring.  The 80/20 rule.  20% of your hives provide 80% of the work. (And no profit).  Commercial beekeepers just shake losers like this one out and concentrate on the probable winners.

> > > 6 mites / 58 bees

> > That seems to indicate a serious level, with some irreversible harm already baked in the cake, , but still a good chance of over wintering success if the mites respond to Apistan.

> It seemed so much better than the numbers I got from the hives in the hay field I was relieved to see only six mites. I guess that was false relief.

These rules are just probabilities, not certainties.  Remember, though that you are 95% certain to lose hives over winter.  The only question is which ones and how many.  That will depend on how well you prepare the good hives, and whether you let a few stragglers distract you from feeding, weighing and wrapping the good ones.

My advice, BTW, is not to overwork the good ones.  Weigh them, and wrap them, but and don't disturb them by opening them and moving frames or boxes this late in the season any more than you absolutely have to.  The bees should have everything arranged the way they want them and interference like rearranging frames could be lethal.  I think of opening up brood chambers and moving frames this late in the year as open-heart surgery.  If necessary and done for urgent reasons, it can be life-saving, but, regardless, it is a major disruption and can be deadly.  

(That being said, I don't hesitate to take a peek during winter as long as the lid seal is as good after as before.  As mentioned here before, a crack around a lid the size of a matchstick adds up to a 4 sq in hole.  In windy regions, this is bad).

> I am very grateful for your replies it keeps me thinking and helps me trust my judgment with some of the problems 

You are most welcome.  I trust this dialogue is of interest to more than just you and me.  

Perhaps some others will comment.

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