>
>
> am i wrong in thinking that the widespread use of treatments and artifical
> feeds are common factors among unhealthy colonies?


Yes, wrong.  There is plenty of data (some reported last week in Calif) that
artificial feeding can greatly benefit colonies in areas without adequate
natural pollen (e.g., California for much of the year).  I've seen plenty of
support of this with my own eyes.


>  does anyone else (besides dee) have a "bounce back" story from ccd
> (repopulating deadout equipment from survivors without fumigating or
> treating, and getting a good honey crop the same year


Sure, plenty of beekeepers have done so.  This is common practice with
commercial beekeepers.


> ...in the desert)?


Funny, but Dee makes a point of saying that she *doesn't* live in a desert.
During Dee's honeyflows, her yards are lush, green, and full of bloom.

When some of Dee's bees crashed, I told her not to worry, since the genetic
diversity of the swarms that she collects would allow her to quickly
rebound.  Her recovery, for which I am grateful, since I consider Dee to be
a friend and awesome beekeeper, didn't surprise me in the least.


>  if so, how come we aren't hearing about them?

Guess you just don't hang out with enough other beekeepers outside of your
group.

Dean, I'm about as green and organic and natural as they come.  I fully
support "natural" beekeeping, however you want to define it.  But I have
little tolerance for those who cherrypick the scientific literature, or
practical experience, to support their personal prejudices.

I would guess that everyone on this List would agree that the study of
unmanaged bee populations can give us great insight into the incredible and
complex ways that Nature selects for species to survive.

But as Pete points out--any "balance" of nature is illusory.  It's a
continual war out there, and the vast majority of species go extinct.

People are hungry to return to natural models, and I applaud them.  However,
it is easy to lose one's perspective, and go too far.  At a recent
conference, I was shown a *natural* beehive that was touted as the best way
to keep bees.  It was a large egg-shaped hollow ball of plastered cow dung,
with curved plywood frames inside, that stood on a three-legged stand.  I
didn't know whether to laugh or cry as I saw the promotor convincing new
beekeepers that this was the only natural way to keep honeybees.

Dean, we kept healthy, thriving colonies of bees for many years under near
identical management techniques as used today--you couldn't hardly kill
them.  Then at least four new parasites arrived (chalkbrood, tracheal mite,
varroa, Nosema ceranae) and turned the entire bee immune response upside
down.  The effects of these parasites are easily observed and documented.
Bees are struggling to come to terms with major changes due to parasite
stress and viral transmission.  Not due to our management, but due to simple
natural phenomena.

The unmanaged, "organic" feral population was decimated.  Those bees existed
in as natural a state as can be.  But virtually all died.  So much for the
power of organic beekeeping to fight parasites (in the short term).

Some beekeepers, such as Dee, benefitted by an influx of stronger bee
genetics.  Others bred from the few surviving feral colonies.  There are a
number of success stories, and I applaud them.

Dean, all of us fully support the keeping of bees with the minimal amount of
chemicals or supplemental feeding (which is expensive and labor intensive).
But at this point in time, few commercial beekeepers could survive with the
current state of bee genetic material available, without some chemotherapy.
That said, I totally agree that many, due the precautionary principle, tend
to overuse antibiotics.

From time to time, you post rather shrill, simplistic, poorly-substantiated
arguments as though they were a great enlightening that will solve our
problems.  Here in California, I sell my chemical-free nucs to starry-eyed
New Age beekeepers every spring.  Unfortunately, most of those nucs die from
the owner trying to impose his/her belief system upon the bees, as the poor
bees face the ruthless hand of nature.  Please keep the example of the cow
dung egg bee hive in mind when you tout your solutions to the real world
problems that bees are facing.

Respectfully yours,
Randy Oliver

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