>
> > We started this discussion thread with you saying that you didn't think
> it had been
> demonstrated that there was a trade off between time of exposure and dose
> level
> such that the chronic LD50 levels could be far lower than the acute LD50
> levels for imidacloprid.


Not quite what I said Ernie, please do not paraphrase me!
The LD50 means that 50% die during that period.  So for a 24-hr LD50, half
the bees die.  That certainly doesn't imply that any lower dose is harmless!
 At half the LD50 you would expect a certain proportion to also die.  That
is exactly what Decourtye found (sorry for the misspelling in my rush).

What I think may be confusing is the difference between the LD50 and the No
Observed Adverse Effects Level.  This level is usually around 10-20 ppb for
most neonics.  At that level the bees' bodies can detoxify the pesticide as
fast as they are exposed to it, much as a tobacco chewer detoxifies the high
doses of nicotine that he receives with each wad--there is no cumulative
effect, as his body detoxifies it slowly enough for him to feel the effect,
but fast enough for the concentration not to build up in his body.

Ernie, I appreciate your questions, as they help me to know those things
that need to be better explained to the public!  I'm not trying to be coy
about the papers, but please realize that I am currently spending about four
to six hours every day during early morning and late night going over every
bit of neonic research after I put in a long day getting my bees ready for
almonds, and trying to summarize it plus keep up with Bee-L as well as what
little other life I have!

Randy Oliver

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