At 06:08 PM 11/12/98 -0700, you wrote:
 
>> On Mon, 2 Nov 1998 20:47:42 -0800, [log in to unmask] (Peter Amschel)
 
>> One reason for this is that in the past we have been able to
>> demonstrate bad behavior in bees that exceeds anything reported in
>> Africanized bees prior or since to its introduction into the US.
 
>Part II : This reason is just not true - Dr Spangler, of our lab, has
developed
>an inexpensive device to measure aggressiveness, which has not been widely
>used. I have personally witnessed tests of aggressiveness which would
literally
>knock your socks off. I cannot accept the statement that the level of
stinging
>bees has not gone up since the AHB arrived. I have worked with hived and
feral
>bees for 34 years in Tucson, seldom selected for gentleness.
 
Hi John & Bee Friends,
 
No doubt about it your area is different, having myself been able to bring
500 hives into your area that I actually shook down at the end of the
almond bloom from doubles without a veil in California only to have then
turn into aggressive beasts that would comply with all behavioral
characteristics of "killer" bees within a few days of being placed in out
yards in your area. I have unique hands on experience myself as a
commercial beekeeper in your area and agree with all descriptions of their
aggressive behavior. I believe you and what you say and if you say the bees
are different today then they must be different, you are there and I am
here. What I do not believe is that all is lost and that we should all get
into the honeybee extermination business, yet.
 
This aggressive behavior I am writing about, the old aggressive behavior
that I experienced, is not limited to a few locations or a few miles of bee
pasture but may extend far west into Mexico and east to Texas, "and north
into New Mexico according to Jaycox at the time", and according to
beekeepers I have visited with in these areas.  Most all have a story about
why their bees are aggressive. The one I heard the most was " we selected
for aggressive bees to reduce vandalism" by the public. I heard many more
stores like we made a mistake and used queens from Hawaii, when bees from
Hawaii had a little problem with fire in their belly even in California. I
am sure today most would say it is the "Afro" bees from Mexico and all say
they can tell the difference in some of their bees if not all.
 
Before I moved bees into your area I spend several seasons working bees
there,  killing "all" old queens each season and replacing them with gentle
stock from Oliver Hill and others in Northern Californian picked because of
years of personal experience with individual genital stock. These queens
did well in your area and their hives produced excellent crops of honey
depending on the season but their aggressive behavior matched the local
stock and they were without quantization "killer" bees by all written
description in the best of times.
 
All of this was BEFORE the advent of any new race of bees entering the US.
One thing I did not do that I really wish I had is to move truck loads of
these bees back to California so I can not say first hand what would happen
only guess and my guess is that in a short time without intervention by man
they would be no more aggressive then local stock. Though only a guess I am
pretty secure in this because so many bees are being moved each spring from
known "killer" bee areas to California with NO unusual problems reported
other then what one would expect from any bees. California regulatory
officials do not check these bees because of the value of their work to the
almond industry without regards to their race or origins so I can not say
how they measure up other then I would guess they would be the same as if
they were checked in their home states and that is Africanized when
recovered as swarms.
 
Before the advent of the Afro bees introduction into Texas tests were
conducted here by Daly I believe and he was able easily to demonstrate
Africanized bees boarder to boarder in California in both hive and feral
populations. At least one of these feral hives has been shown by all tests
to be the only 100% African stock found in the Americas. NONE OF THESE BEES
WERE AGGRESSIVE. None were measured for aggressive behavior because none
were aggressive. This work was paid for by the Calif. Dept. of Agriculture
and was not made public.(wonder why) I did get a copy and reproduced it and
tried to get it out to all the bee labs and interested persons at the time,
you may have one in your library I don't know.
 
Now I have no doubts that bees are aggressive in your area. I believe what
I have seen with my own eyes and felt the real proof on my own skin many
times. I do have serious concerns with what has and is reported as the
scientific reason from this difference including measurements, and
expensive DNA tests. This cynicism has not been helped by the hyping of the
problem by some in the public funded Bee Research/Regulatory Business and
the setting up of phoney, less then honest demonstrations for the public
and press by the same. No reflection on your own organization or their work
as over the years I have found you all to be good people and tireless
scientists, others are not.
 
I am somewhat disappointed in the fact that no solution has been found for
this aggressive behavior as I know there is one and believe it will turn
out to be simple and have nothing to do with DNA or the WWII science of
morphometrics. I suspect to much effort is being made in identifying
problems and looking for new ones and I am sure more will be found.
 
ttul, Andy-
Los Banos, Left Coast of the Republic of America
 
 
 
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