>The difference between your observations (BTW, have you got citations for
the others that agree with your work?)

Christina, I've already posted two citations in this discussion (Schmuck
and Cresswell), both of which listed numerous studies--are those not enough?

>and the consumption measured by Suchail is most likely due to the fact
that those who study IMI effects have noticed that insects starve
themselves when poisoned in this way.

That is why I included the reference to Cresswell's recent study, in which
the syrup contained IMI.  I specifically referred to his study for your
benefit, since it showed the syrup consumption rate of bees despite the
presence of IMI.

>But so what...if they eat less and die in the presence of a poison, does
that mean the study is less convincing than if they ate the same as normal
bees and then died?  In veterinary medicine, where I worked for years
before going to a teaching college, it was common knowledge that poisoned
animals eat less.

I think that would be common knowledge for most folk.  Christina, if one
looks at Suchail's graphs of mortality carefully, one can't help but notice
that there is virtually no dose response curve, although the poisons were
fed at 0.1, 1, and 10 ppb.  One would expect some sort of dose response
over such a large range of doses, and with seven different poisons if the
methods of the experimenter actually demonstrated that the bee mortality
rate was related to the toxicity of the poison given.  Can you tell us with
a straight face that you can look at Suchail's graphs without wondering why
the curves are all virtually identical?

Christina, I'm getting the impression that your mind is already completely
made up, and that I'm wasting my time in this discussion.  Please tell me
that that isn't so!


-- 
Randy Oliver
Grass Valley, CA
www.ScientificBeekeeping.com

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