"So one IMI molecule binds to one synapse. But its two metabolites can bind to TWO synapses, that was Jim's point."
You start with one molecule of IMI. That molecule can metabolize in many ways, some of which destroy the binding site rendering the metabolites inert from a biological stand point. Other metabolites retain the binding site and can still block nerves. But, one molecule of IMI can only degrade to one molecule of metabolite that retains the binding site. So one molecule of IMI can potentially block one single synapse. If that IMI molecule breaks down to a metabolite that retains the binding site the metabolite can block one single synapse but the parent IMI is now gone and no longer exists. You can never make two metabolites from one IMI that both retain the binding site and block two nerves. There is no multiplication during metabolism. There is no way one molecule of IMI or its metabolites can ever bind two synapses at the same time. If two synapses do get involved it is because the IMI or its metabolites have been released from the first synapse
and later caught by the second.
View metabolism like a road system. You are going down the road in your car and hit a Y. If you turn right some hunk falls off your car. If you turn left some other hunk falls off your car. Keep going and there are more such Ys where hunks fall off. Or stop signs where some hunk falls off when you stop. In any case your car can only go down one path and it never becomes two cars. If you go far enough your car will no longer function as a car so many parts have fallen off.
Dick
" Any discovery made by the human mind can be explained in its essentials to the curious learner." Professor Benjamin Schumacher talking about teaching quantum mechanics to non scientists. "For every complex problem there is a solution which is simple, neat and wrong." H. L. Mencken
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On Wed, 10/28/15, Christina Wahl <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Subject: [BEE-L] Neurological effects
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Wednesday, October 28, 2015, 3:01 PM
"The metabolization breaks down the
imidacloprid into at least two "binding
metabolites". That seems to DOUBLE the number of
molecules that can bind the bee's receptors."
"For an analogy, one can cut a T-bone steak into a New York
strip steak plus a tenderloin. You've now got two
steaks, but no more total steak."
To some extent, I think you are both right. IMI and
all its metabolites are present in the synapse. All of
the molecules also degrade at some rate, we aren't sure
about the details except that we do know they are all there
for days. So one steak, two steaks, three, or just
one-and-a-half; we don't know and to argue about it is
pointless. It would however be useful to remember the
facts that we do have: ALL of the molecules persist
for days, especially the top two metabolites, and ALL of
them can bind to synapses. So one IMI molecule binds
to one synapse. But its two metabolites can bind to
TWO synapses, that was Jim's point.
What are the consequences? Fuzzy-headed bees,
according to MANY other papers showing behavioral
problems. As Jim pointed out in an earlier post,
behavioral changes are among the first symptoms of
neurological deficit. Just observe anyone who's had a
few drinks. So our bees are on a continuous
buzz. What is the labor output if all your employees
are drunks? Can we live with that?
Christina
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