>The price?  Well I can tell you where to buy pads for application in
>effective, approved methods that are recommended by well known and
>respected Canadian researchers for about $0.03 each.
>
>Frankly, if I see another SPAM here about that thing, I'm going to
>forward it directly to Consumer & Corporate Affairs, the department
>that deals with such.
 
> While I cannot condone the methods
 
This is the topic and the content of the post you responded to.
 
Specifically the obviously false and exaggerated claims made, and the
replying to posts that were only vaguely related *with a canned
message* were discussed.
 
> that Mr. Podpodi
 
I believe the post came from a Mr. Phillips, not the above mentioned.
I don't know if Mr. Popodi has *anything* to do with the abuse of our
group.
 
> employed to inform the list of his product
 
> to condemn it out of hand without examination, and to threaten
> prosecution is disgraceful.
 
No one condemned the product, and no one threatened to press
prosecution. BUT doubts were cast on its ability to fulfill claims
of safety and 'beneficial' nature of concentrated formic acid, 100%
control of mites, it's price compared to alternatives, and whether it
had been able to attract -- and pass -- independant tests, etc.
 
*And* it was suggested that the government body that is maintained
to protect the public from unscrupulous or uncritical claims by
advertisers should have an opportunity to scrutinise the material
posted and form their own conclusion.
 
> As I post this, I have a VTD on my desk. Having examined it, and
> thought about it carefully, it definitely has promise. Unlike the
> current methods of delivery, the bees cannot walk in the Formic acid
>  (burnt feet) and the evaporation can be controlled.
 
No one disputes this, and personally I am certain that it has some
good features -- and possibly some usefulness -- However some of the
the claims are specifically untrue.  That is the issue.
 
I am not sure that there is much danger of bees walking on formic
with the 'mite wipes' type pads, but I think this is something to
consider.  These pads have a perforated plastic cover that should
contain the acid, but I do wonder about this aspect.  Pehaps one of
the researchers involved could comment.
 
Real or potential amage to the bees is one aspect of formic that we
must always consider.
 
> If and when I get mites, and provided Mr. Podpodi is not
> intimidated enough to quit, then I for one, will certainly both use
> it and recommend it.
 
We'll see.
 
> I must agree, 85% Formic Acid has proven to be too strong, but
>  only with the old method of delivery. Perhaps it is time for one
> of the academic crowd to become involved and evaluate this item!
 
Right.  However academics are strongly allergic to been seen
anywhere near anything -- or anyone -- who appears likely to make
unsubstantiated and dubious claims in the same sentence (paragraph,
article?) with their names.  Good jobs are hard to find.
 
Moreover, due to the fact that this product appears to offer little
that cheaper and non-proprietary systems do not, there will likely be
somewhat restrained interest.
 
Personal human safety is one of the factors that mandates the use of
more dilute formic.  The vapor concentration is less in the weaker
solutions.
 
Those who have Workman's Compensation for their people will be wise
to stick with approved practices.  Those who don't should consider
that such safety rules are usually well designed.
 
> Finally to Mr. Podpodi,  you have a good product
 
This has yet to be proven independently.  The burden of proof is on
the advertiser, not the buyer.
 
> don't be put off by the blinkered view of some of our fraternity.
 
This community is pretty open minded, but not easily fooled. We
require more than advertising.
 
> but as a newbie tread carefully around the 'Net Gods' and
> find a different method of delivering your message.
 
Well, I don't know about 'Net Gods', but speaking of such, David,
I notice you've been pretty circumspect in promoting your
proprietary hive.
 
You don't go spamming the group repeatedly,  and have heard no
complaints or threats of prosecution (as far as I know) for the
claims you make about a box that is very probably no better than the
hundreds (thousands) of other designs that have been dreamed up and
promoted over the years.
 
It appears that you and I have very little real difference of opinion
on this matter, seeing as you explicitly agreed with all the major
points in my pos -- except you showed little confidence that the
advertising for the device would stand regulatory scrutiny, and you
feel -- without testing it -- that it is likely worth $4+ dollars
per hive (assuming one per hive will do the trick) more than the
approved and proven methods.  Oh, well.
 
Say, how about sending me some literature on the DE hive?
 
;-)
 
Regards
 
Allen
 
W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper                                         VE6CFK
RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta  Canada T0M 1Y0
Internet:[log in to unmask] & [log in to unmask]
Honey. Bees, & Art <http://www.internode.net/~allend/>