Does LD50 have any real relevance fo neonicotinoids?  Surely it is the
sublethal effects that are important.

What is being found is that just about all pesticides have sub-lethal
effects, including those effects supposedly confined to the neonics. Such
as Cumaphose, which beekeepers put in their hives.

We probably had the same issues with older pesticides but we missed several
key ingredients. Varroa, new virulent virus, and nosema cerana. Plus, we
can now measure to ppb and below, so we now know the stew that is in the
hive is fairly extensive.

Back in the good old days, if you had a pesticide kill it was fairly
obvious. But not always. Dave Green can set me straight here, but
beekeepers would complain about "sickly" bees and bees that would not
produce like they had earlier. There may have been pesticide use in the
area, but not close to the colonies. It was a bit of a mystery, but often
pesticides were blamed.

Then there was no Varroa but, and most did not know it, there were virus in
the hive, so you could have sub-lethal effects (bees immune system harmed)
and sick bees from pesticides. But who knew?

Now, if a hive dies, it seems that the neonics have to be the problem even
if none are found in the colony.

Forget the sub-lethal effects especially since we know the lethal effects
of varroa, nosema and virus.

Thank you kindly,

Bill Truesdell (for fans of Due South)
Bath, Maine

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