> Bees can separate solid particles from dissolved sugar with the proventriculus.  If they have enough water to dissolve the sugar.

Yes, I am aware of that, and think this applies in this case, however, being the doubter that I am, I would like proof.

> The question that I have, Allen, is whether we could get away with a protein concentrate patty that was not very attractive, that the bees would slowly gnaw on.

I think we already have them already, and that is the problem we are
discussing.  Sure looks that way to me.  The problem is that they 
cannot be counted on to do the gnawing and that freaks out the 
beekeepers who paid money and now expect the bees to eat 
them whether they need them at the moment or not.

The problem with patties that have a high concentration and low attraction
for the bees is that the consumption becomes too variable and bees do not eat
them reliably before they go to waste.

Studies sem to have shown that bees consuming pollen do not have a clue 
as to the nutritional qualities and go strictly by "attractiveness".

In my personal experimentation years ago, I found what seemed to me to be
the optimal compromise between protein levels and patty consumption.

Normally when beekeepers put patties into hives, it is  on the expectation
that the bees need them and will consume them in a reasonable time.

Many beekeepers carry that expectation to extreme and  want a patty that
disappears fast, without assuming the accompanying responsibility to provide
lots of the diet and to keep an excess available at all times so the bees 
never run out and find themselves with underfed brood or have to 
tear brood out.

In pursuit of quick consumption, attractants and more than a necessary 
amount of pollen are demanded by the beekeepers, adding to cost,
but not necessarily benefit.

Personally, I used a yeast/soy/sugar patty with no pollen and was happy with
the consumption and results, since my intent was merely to provide a
"welfare" system, not to force my bees, and that was what my suppliers made.

From there, demand has gone over to patties with as much as 25% pollen
which are inhaled by the bees and put pressure on the beekeepers to increase
the supply.  

To my knowledge, however, judging by the fact that typically beekeepers 
only order two or maybe three patties per hive,  most beekeepers do not 
keep the diet available ,and IMO, they are wasting their money and they are 
giving their bees mixed signals which result in stop and go brood rearing.

I've written about this until I am blue in the face and still nobody seems
to understand.  I have to conclude that I am simply wrong or cannot write
clearly.

High-protein is like a religion.  People want o believe in it despite the 
evidence that it is a bad idea.  There is simply no point in trying to use
reason or cite experience or point out that there is a huge difference 
between something a beekeeper puts into the centre of the hive, and 
which is available 24/7 and something that the bees must gather 
when they can.

There is also a huge difference between what the bees would do left to 
their own compared to what management attempts to accomplish, yet 
people want to use one for a model for the other.

People have faith that high protein is the Holy Grail, and that just because 
all their efforts fail or have unreliable success, it is somehow their fault and 
not a fundamental fault in the idea.

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