On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 14:14:32 -0500, Bill Truesdell <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

 
>If the main issue is that the dosage is too high as well as its
>persistence is too long that it kills bees even when applied according
>to label instructions, then the government should be involved, which
>brings us full circle, back to my original question.
>


as i have mentioned before i manage 1800 apples trees. Bill hints at a real issue not discussed 
much and that is following labels. 

in my 14 years as a grower, meeting other growers, talking to chem salespeople, going to 
conventions etc the range of knowledge by apple growers is surprise - the same as in beekeeping. 

you have a normal distribution of people on each extreme who either use way below the labelled 
dose and err on the side of caution  and those who ignore the label and ramp up the dose and 
perhaps spray during bloom or other more risky times of the season or day. 

blaming a specific chemical may miss the fact that there are many beeks exposed to spray that is 
put down responsibly and other beeks who have been badly damaged by ignorant or unethical 
spray applicators. 

i don't think one can credibly make a blanket statement about a chem being the sole source for 
our wide spread bee losses, there is just too much variability in beekeepers, climate, applicator 
knowledge and crop planting patterns. 

when we have a national crisis which we do now in overall bee health i beleive we must look at 
variables that are common to all affected (like disease, virus and mite) that are not regional in 
nature - pesticide use seems to variable and regional IMO
 
has imidacloprid caused some bee die off? no doubt and there is such a wide range of crop uses 
for that material.  if Imidacloprid was this evil wide spread problem that killed bees were ever and 
at any dose it was applied we would not even be having this discussion and quite likely the feds or 
other states would be onto it and there would be attempts to de-list the product for use.

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