On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 14:16:18 +0100, Dave Cushman <[log in to unmask]> 
wrote:

>What makes you think that removing drones is not damaging ? Bees are not 
>wasteful, they make the number of drones that they require, artificially
>removing them, disturbs the rhythm of what the bees consider 'normal'.

I'm skeptical of this line of reasoning.  Can I then say, bees are not 
wasteful, they make the amount of honey that they require, artificially 
removing it disturbs the rhythm of what the bees consider 'normal'?  In 
fact, isn't the whole idea of *keeping* bees to achieve something that 
isn't 'normal,' which is to say something other than what would occur in 
the wild?  Besides which, what if the usefulness of those particular drones 
isn't especially useful to me?  Can my advantage not diverge from the 
supposed 'advantage of the bees' to any degree at all?


On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 15:09:28 GMT, [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> 
wrote:

>Drone trapping is taxing on a colony.  Colonies will
>raise and maintain a certain number of drones in the warm months in
>order to have their genetics well represented in the drone
>congregation areas for local virgins' matings.
>
>If you remove a lot of drones, the bees will strive to raise
>replacements which of course requires resources (material, labor, and
>drone cells).

That's a possibility, but it's far from self-evident to me.  I think the 
question is where the feedback takes place, by which I mean do the workers 
maintain a certain amount of drone comb, or does the queen lay a certain 
number of unfertilized eggs, or does the colony seek to feed a certain 
amount of drone brood, or does the colony seek to achieve a certain level 
of mature drones, or how do these multiple factors combine, or what other 
factors are there?  Until we can answer that question, I think it's highly 
speculative to say what the 'energy cost' of removing a frame of drones 
is.  My experience actually leads me to suspect that removing and replacing 
a frame of drones about to emerge doesn't lead to an attempt by the hive to 
raise replacements (at least not beyond the replacement drone frame that I 
put in the old one's place), but I'd certainly be interested in seeing more 
research on the subject.

>I know that drone trapping helps to keep varroa numbers in check but
>the idea has little *moral* appeal to me.  I hate achieving a goal by
>sacrificing the troops. :)

I wouldn't call what I do sacrificing the troops to a false god; I feed 
them to the chickens.  I also don't see any basis for 'moral' qualms about 
it, but it's a fair amount of work, and I'm still not sure if the mite kill 
is sufficient to justify the labor cost, especially labor with strict 
calendar deadlines.

Eric

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