gail and all
herbs may have the potential to build a tolerance level but things and time
have probably changed with this mom. But remember that drugs to build
tolerance levels and have to be re- leveled ( titrated ) to meet the needs
of the family. She can take reglan with the fenugreek and blessed thistle.
she could also try goat's rue another herb, but it works slightly
differently in the body than fenugreek.
Also would look atincreasing skin to skin time and mayby soom manual
stimulation and compression of the breast at feedings and other times.
as for time to takke the reglan probably one of the docs could answer
better. there were geriatric patrients i gave this drug to in the nursing
home and they have benn on it for months accourding to charts and med
records.
mechell turner, Med. IBCLC, CCE, graduate nurse in 6 weeks!
-----Original Message-----
From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
To: Recipients of LACTNET digests <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Thursday, June 03, 1999 9:03 PM
Subject: LACTNET Digest - 3 Jun 1999 - Special issue (#1999-5)
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 08:45:28 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: LACTNET First Years Pump
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In a message dated 6/3/99 7:50:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<<
If any of you have had experience with the First Years (Simplicity)
double pump, would you email me privately. Saw a mom today whose baby is
tongue-tied and she received one as a gift. She needs to start pumping soon,
but has not opened the box and can return it and rent a hospital grade pump,
if you feel is not effective.
Alice Ernest LLLL, IBCLC
Simpsonville, SC >>
Alice,
I've had probably two dozen mothers over the last few months who have called
my practice with complaints about the First Years electric breast pump. The
majority reported pain with pumping and very little milk received for their
efforts. It is not one that I would recommend, IMHO.
Kathy Parkes, RN, IBCLC
The Lactation Connection (TLC)
www.tlc4moms.com
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:27:56 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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I've got to second Kathy D's comment on the ILCA conference issue. As I was
signing on this morning I was hoping people have stopped ganging up on the
list mothers. So OK, people don't agree with the policy.
If ILCA doesn't have a message board or list maybe one could be created to
help people connect for the conference.
Tracy Kirschner, DC
LLLL, AAPL, Boulder, CO
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:28:17 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Feedback on Teen Mom Talk
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I have been meaning to post about the short surveys the teen moms did after
I talked to them last month. When I got back from Ocracoke, the surveys
were in the office. It was interesting to note what the teens mentioned.
They said they were surprised to know that babies were sick a lot less, and
that breast size didn't matter. Every one mentioned that they didn't know
that if they obtained formula from WIC, they still were going to have to buy
some of it. All of them said they were planning to breastfeed! Even the
outspoken one who was so negative wrote that she was going to do it for at
least two weeks. I was pleased with that.
I also forgot to mention in the original post was that I told them that
there was one thing they had to have in order to successfully
breastfeed-maturity. I told them that maturity had nothing to do with age,
and that at 15 they could be more mature than a 30 year old as far as
breastfeeding goes. They just need to be mature enough to put the baby's
needs first for a while. They all got wide eyed at that one. I imagine
they all like to think of themselves as mature.
The 15 year old mom who came with me to speak to the class also came to our
support group last week. Baby nursing and doing great. Her own mom is
amazed and proud. Grandma never imagined that her 15 year old could do so
well with breastfeeding and responsibility for the baby. I think she
imagined herself having to take all responsibility. Instead she hardly gets
her hands on him!
Ann Calandro,RNC,IBCLC
Piedmont Medical Center
Rock Hill, SC
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:42:59 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Susan Keith-Hergert <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LACTNET First Years Pump
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Have to second Kathy's opinion on this one. Absolutely one of the worst
pumps I've ever worked with. Not one report of success out of about a dozen
moms.
Susan Keith-Hergert
Cincinnati, Ohio
[log in to unmask] on 06/04/99 08:45:28 AM
Please respond to Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
cc: (bcc: Susan J Keith-Hergert/MGCR/CHP)
Subject: Re: LACTNET First Years Pump
In a message dated 6/3/99 7:50:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<<
If any of you have had experience with the First Years (Simplicity)
double pump, would you email me privately. Saw a mom today whose baby is
tongue-tied and she received one as a gift. She needs to start pumping
soon,
but has not opened the box and can return it and rent a hospital grade
pump,
if you feel is not effective.
Alice Ernest LLLL, IBCLC
Simpsonville, SC >>
Alice,
I've had probably two dozen mothers over the last few months who have
called
my practice with complaints about the First Years electric breast pump.
The
majority reported pain with pumping and very little milk received for their
efforts. It is not one that I would recommend, IMHO.
Kathy Parkes, RN, IBCLC
The Lactation Connection (TLC)
www.tlc4moms.com
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:42:26 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: ILCA/LACTNET
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I fail to understand why ILCA should be singled out as a confernce not to
be discussed when it is accepted that we discuss all the other conferences
that we attend.....
Patricia
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:42:24 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: unilateral low supply
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Bracha:
We are not semetrical... I believe that the breasts make very different
amounts AND additionally mom has a prefered side and so does baby so that one
side may get considerably more 'usage" enoucouraging it to make more milk.
Patricia
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:42:23 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: galatogogues
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Gail:
I have not had the experiece of herbal not working but she may have to up
her dosage....
I have had excellent results with goats rue.
Patricia
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 10:00:32 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Natascha Junghans <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 3 Jun 1999 to 4 Jun 1999 - Special issue
(#1999-8)
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Hello,
My name is Natascha Junghans, and I am a La Leche League Leader in Montana.
I subscribed to Lactnet a few years back and am just now finding the time
(after another baby) to involve myself in theis wonderful chat.
Recently, I've been working with a mother who's situtiation has me baffled.
She is 7 weeks postpartum and has had mastitis 6 times. In the first week she
developed a severe crack across the tip of her nipple, which healed in such a
way that there is STILL a crack but no soreness, bleeding, or anything. Baby
has oral thrush. Mom's milk supply is beyond overabundant--she is pumping
before and after feeding just to get some relief, and if she misses a
pumping, she is hit with mastitis immediately. The odd part is there is never
much soreness (if at all) in her breasts with the mastitis, but she has the
fever, aches, etc. Also, it hits like a freight train (within an hour or
two).
Could this healed crack (which has left an opening in the nipple) be the
entry point for bacteria ie. thrush from baby???
Any ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Natascha Junghans
LLL Leader
Bozeman, Montana
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 10:13:37 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Susan Keith-Hergert <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: increasing flow
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Rob,
I had a mom present with a similar problem a few weeks ago. Baby would fuss
at the breast after the first couple of letdowns and then go to other
breast and be happy....and repeat back to first breast. Mom wanted to know
how to establish a continuous flow rate.
Here is my take on this, for what it is worth. It isn't possible or even
desirable to make a breast act like a bottle! What is the big deal about a
little fussing at the breast? If baby is thriving and mom's production is
good, why can't she handle a little fussing?
I established that the mom I was dealing with had more serious issues than
her baby fussing at the breast. She had not been out of the house in days!
She had no extended family or friends in the area. She didn't want to
breastfeed in public so she isolated herself all the time. In short, she
had postpartum depression and needed help to recognize it and act to get it
treated. I referred her to a psychiatrist that specializes in this and also
to a local LLL group for some support.
Sometimes I think we are overly anxious to assign "problems" to
breastfeeding. A mom who cannot handle a little bit of fussing at the
breast is in trouble.....babies fuss.
Susan Keith-hergert RN, MS, CPN, IBCLC
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 10:47:04 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Susan Keith-Hergert <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 3 Jun 1999 to 4 Jun 1999 - Special issue (
#1999-8)
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Natascha,
The situation you are describing reminds me of myself....17 years ago. I
had mastitis several times after the birth of my first. Overabundant
supply, could never miss a feed, would get fever, chills etc. It was awful.
After several rounds of antibiotics, finally decided to approach from a
different angle. Tried to boost my own immune system. Saw a homeopath,
started on 1g per day of Vit.C, Ecchinacea twice a day, and Homeopathic
Phytolacca at the first sign of plugging or malaise. Worked like a charm!
Returned to this protocol after births of babies 2 and 3, never had another
problem with mastitis.
I think sometimes moms are just so worn out and exhausted...immune systems
can flag under the strain. Rest and good eating help a little with this
but...if there is a homeopath or naturopath around, would really encourage
her to enlist his services. Sometimes this may not be covered by
insurance...it is still worth it because, once you know how to treat
yourself this way you won't need to go back....one visit is often all you
need, and that is cheaper than several co-payments to a standard
practitioner who can only give antibiotics.
Good Luck,
Susan Keith-Hergert RN, MS, CPN, IBCLC
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 10:57:51 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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Subject: Re: First years pump
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Alice,
I had a client in the hosp, twins, preterm. Had the first years pump. Had
long discussion about hosp grade pumps and reasons why necessary in light of
her situation. She wanted to use First Years pump because it was a gift to
her and
she was tight for money. Tried it a few times, after using the Classic while
in the hospital, and came back to me to say that it expressed nothing and
hurt! She subsequently rented a HG pump and did fine and the company refunded
her the money for the first years pump.
Jane Ciaramella
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:07:45 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: "Beth E. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: breast cancer
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[log in to unmask] wrestled with a keyboard and this emerged:
> Since a lot of
> breast cancer tumors occur in the upper outside quadrant of the breast
> area, this is where the lymph nodes are located. Is this true??
I do know that the upper outer quadrant has more tissue than the
others (the tail of spence) so it stands to reason that the chances of
cancer locating there are higher. Are there more cancers per amount
of breast tissue in that quadrant?
Regards,
Beth
CBE, ICCE, PP Doula
Springfield, MA USA
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:19:07 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: gima <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Natascha's case of recurring mastitis
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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If she has been taking antibiotics for her mastitis, then, with each treatment, her immune system is more depressed. Then she is set up for the next one.
She does need to decrease her milk supply so that the backing up doesn't create blocked ducts that can lead to mastitis. I have found that sage is a good way to decrease the milk supply, especially in cases in which the usual one-breast-at-a-feed creates the situation your mom has. Sage tea is used sometimes, but I have found that the powdered sage that is in most cupboards does fine. 1/4 tsp 3X a day for as many days as is needed, works well.
It doesn't dissolve well in most drinks, with vegetable juice being the exception. So I recommend that mom make a sandwich of peanut butter or other sticky substance. In one corner she puts her 1/4 tsp of sage, tears off that corner and swallows it without chewing, drinks some flavorful juice, then eats her sandwich. There is no taste of sage.
In serious cases 2-3 days is necessary to relieve the over-supply. In most cases 1-2 days is enough.
The "mastitis" that you describe sounds like "non infective" mastitis. Many of the symptoms are similar to infective mastitis, which does need abx treatment. You can go to Cindy's web site, (www.erols.com/cindyrn/) and read Dr. Jack Newman's recommendation for treating mastitis. Following that will eliminate a lot of needless antibiotics.
What I recommend when a mom calls with symptoms of mastitis is that she take 200mg of ibuprofen every 4 hours for 24 hours, put cabbage leaves on the breast, be sure that the breast is well drained by baby or pump, rest, drink liquids, take echinacea and call me tomorrow. In 90% of the cases everything is better and she continues the regimen until all is well. In the 10% of the cases which are no better, or worse, she calls her doctor, who will prescribe an abx.
An additional thing your mom can do after her supply is reduced is take lecethin to prevent recurring blocked ducts. My clients find that about 3500mg a day (usually 3 gelcaps) stop the recurring blocks.
Pat Gima, IBCLC
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 13:12:19 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: ilca vs. lactnet
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i'm just kidding, i know it isn't ilca vs. lactnet, but even if ilca creates
a page or something to accomodate conversation between members, including
conference comments, i am not holding my breath, because i have never gotten
reasonable responses (hey, any response at all most of the time) from ilca
via email, mail, etc. at least lactnet i get faithfully. i vote for using
cindy's list since it works well.
carol brussel IBCLC
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 13:26:05 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Nancy Holtzman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Underarm deodorants and breast cancer
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Hi, All,
Someone was recently asking about this. This is one of those widely
circulated rumors online, the connection between underarm
deoderants/antiperspirants and breast cancer. I think they claim it has
something to do with the aluminum contained in the deodorant or being
unable to clear toxins through lymph tissue. However, there is no proven
link between the two. You can find more info and links at the Urban
Legends/Internet Hoaxes page,
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blnotes8.htm#cancer?pid=2733&cob=home
And there, I found a link to the American Cancer Society, addressing this
rumor
http://www2.cancer.org/zine/dsp_SecondaryStories.cfm?archiveLink=001_0521199
9_0
NancyH
Nancy Holtzman RN BSN MOM
Great Beginnings New Mothers Groups
Boston MA
Sitting for the IBCLE this July? Join our study/support group by clicking
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 10:40:36 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: "Melinda Hoskins, MS, RN" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: CPT codes and ICD9 codes
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Janet and all--
CPT or Current Procedural Terminology is a yearly publication of the
American Medical Association. As such the codes are intended to be
descriptive of services provided by physicians. When other health
professionals desire to describe their services, they should probably
have a professional organization back their use of standardized
descriptive codes, rather than using the codes put out by the AMA.
Anyone wishing to obtain a copy of the CPT 1999 edition can do so by
calling the AMA at 800 621-8335.
I don't know if there has been any effort to specifically develop
billing or service codes for LC work, but it seems like it would be a
worthwhile endeavor. Having worked in my DH's office doing insurance
billing etc, I know that there are issues of fraud when one uses codes
which are intended to convey that the physician provided the service,
but it was actually done by someone other than the MD/DO. I'd be really
cautious in using CPT codes unless you are a physician.
ICD9 codes are a universal diagnostic coding system that is designed to
standardize the classification of diseases and conditions treated,
causes of morbidity and mortality, etc around the world. It is
appropriate for LC's to use these codes in describing the problems which
lead to LC consultation. I could get the ICD9 book from my husband's
office next week and possibly post some of the more frequently occuring
codes if there is interest. I haven't seen the Medela listing, so don't
know what might be on that.
Melinda Hoskins, MS, RN, LC2B
Of a Nurturing Nature
Educational and Support Services for the Childbearing Family
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 12:49:08 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: "Denny Rice, RN, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Natasha
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Ouch!
I don't believe your mom has had mastitis 6X in 7wks. She has had 1 mastits
infection which has never been cleared. It is possible that under the surface
of the "healed" crack, there is a pocket of infection which continues growing
bacteria and is not being reached by antibiotics. I would certainly have the
doc explore this. The reason she relapses so quickly if she fails to pump is
because she has simply been holding the symptoms at bay with keeping the breast
as empty as possible. At this point, it MAY be necessary for her to be given
IV antibiotics. Please encourage her to aggresively pursue getting this
cleared up ASAP with her doc, as this has the potential of becoming a dangerous
situation quickly.
Best Wishes,
Denny Rice, RN, IBCLC
Dallas, TEXAS USA
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 13:12:30 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Request from Lithuania
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Dear Lactnetters,
I have a request from a wonderfully breastfeeding-friendly
pediatrician in Lithuania for books on breastfeeding. So I'm putting out a
request to you -- if any of you have an old copy of the Womanly Art, or Ruth
Lawrence, or the Breastfeeding Answer Book, or Riordan and Auerbach, or any
other books that you probably won't be using any more because you have newer
versions, or just have extras, or just want to help, please consider mailing
them to me to be put in a box and mailed to Lithuania. I'd like to flood
this wonderful gentleman with help. My home address is: 8715 Bent Tree
Drive, College Station, TX 77845-5559. Let me know by email what you are
sending. Thanks.
Kathy Dettwyler
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 13:26:21 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: "Denny Rice, RN, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: adoptive nursing
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In the archives, I found reference to a URL for adoptive nursing, but not the
actual address. Can someone help me?, Also, I am getting ready to order books
on this subject and would appriciate it if you mention the names/authors of any
you know so I don't miss any.
Thank you,
Denny Rice, RN, IBCLC
Dallas, Tx USA
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 14:30:38 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Cathy Bargar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: baby mix-ups/hosp. scene
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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"...how does she NOT know HER baby?
Jan -- wondering what is really going on in hospitals where moms can't
identify their own baby...."
Well, in addition to all the obvious disorienting stuff that goes on in a
hospital is that hospitals smell funny, and interfere with the sense of
smell that is actually one of the most primitive ways a mom has of
recognizing her baby. Wasn't there that study that showed that most mothers
recognized and responded to their own baby's smell on a T shirt within the
first 24 hrs? I always swore I could recognize my own babies by smell, if
nothing else, and can still easily sniff out which pillow belongs to which
kid.
(On a less elegant note, I can always tell by smell whether my kids or my
step-kids have used the bathroom most recently. Talk about talents there are
no known uses for!)
Cathy Bargar, RN, IBCLC Ithaca NY
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 14:37:31 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Formula promo
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Well, this morning I heard a new one. The PCT came in to see the bf mom who
was going home. "We have a gift package for you. Would you like the one
with the bunnies on it, or the one with the teddy bears?"
GAGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!
She chose the teddy bears.
Sigh.
Jan Barger, in Wheaton, IL -- just home from a wonderful LLL conference in
So. CA! (But the weather was better here...)
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 15:18:47 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: lisa mooney RN <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 4 Jun 1999 - Special issue (#1999-9)
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I am a Registered Nurse, BSN, who recently signed on with Lactnet and find it
to be particularly informative. I have 3 years of NICU and post-partum
nursing experience and am sitting the IBLCE exam for CLC in July. I have over
3000 hours of breastfeeding experience both in bedside/telephone consults and
teaching health care workers and expectant and working mothers. My question
is one of employment after I take the exam. I am currently separated from the
military, I was a Navy Nurse for 4 years, and am involved in the Breast
Feeding Friendly Hospital Initiative at Naval Medical Center San Diego. We
are requesting four full time Lactation Consultant positions and it is under
review now by the Executive Steering Comm. We are all very excited about it,
however, I wish to avoid putting all of my eggs in one basket in terms of
hoping these positions will be approved. Any suggestions on how to find
employment as a Lactation Consultant, Thankyou You can send me email
personally or respond to this string Lisa Mooney [log in to unmask]
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 15:32:23 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Cathy Bargar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: galactagogue
Comments: To: Gail Davis <[log in to unmask]>
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"1. Is typical that herbal remedies lose their effectiveness after several
months?"
No. But it's pretty common to notice a decrease in supply at various points
along the way. Check the archives - there's been discussion about this.
"2. If she begins taking Reglan, does she need to stop taking the
Fenugreek?"
I don't know, but this is something I"ve wondered about too. Hope we find
out here!
"3. How long can she stay on Reglan. Will this typically lose
effectiveness after a period of time?"
Isn't 7 - 10 days the usually recommended course? Don't know if it's a great
idea to stay on longer than 2 weeks. Be sure to ask her about a history of
depression, and warn her that if she's at all inclined to depression this
might not be a good choice for her.
Cathy Bargar, RN, IBCLC Ithaca NY
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 15:46:56 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Cathy Bargar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: oral thrush in adults?
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I'd put my money on strep throat or a viral infection, esp. if she's had any
fever with the sore throat. Yes, adults can have yeast infection in the
throat - but the only situations where I've encountered it is with cancer
patients on chemotherapy, or AIDS patients. Immunosuppression creates the
necessary conditions - otherwise, it's kept in check by the body's normal
defenses. When I've looked in the throats of these patients (I used to work
for an oncologist, and on the hospital unit where chemo was administered &
CA pts. were cared for), most commonly what I've seen is an angry red
throat, more like what you see on baby's bottoms when they have thrush that
causes diaper-rash. In these pts., it seems to be absolutely excruciating,
often the most painful and miserable aspect of their illness, often making
it impossible for them to take anything by mouth - causes huge problems with
their nutritional status. The treatment? Same as for babies (oral Nystatin
"swish & swallow"), often combined with an oral "numbing" medication, like a
'caine or even cocaine spray.
But I've never seen it in any other kind of adult - one of the symptoms of
Chronic Fatigue Syndrome is chronic or long-term sore throat that resists
treatment, and CFS is linked to immunosupression, so...But unless there's
other stuff going on with this woman's overall health, I'd bet on strep or
virus!
Cathy Bargar, RN, IBCLC Ithaca NY
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 14:41:58 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: ILCA Conference discussion
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Here is a suggestion:
I have heard that those planning to attend the La Leche League
International Conference in Orlando this summer have their own separate
list (on Onelist) for those wishing to communicate about this conference,
what to do in the area, roommates, sharing rides from the airport, etc.
This has worked well, as it allows sharing between those who wish it, and
keeps the regular LLL Leader list, and LactNet free of most of that.
I was wondering if that would be a solution for those attending the ILCA
conference as well. Anyone want to go to onelist and set something up
specifically for Scottsdale?
Kathy Dettwyler
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 15:54:07 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: oversupply
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Natascha:
you might consider having this mom checked for placnetal fragments.
Patricia
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 16:03:32 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: bf guidelines
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Is any one aware what the new breastfeeding guidelines by the Department of
Health and Human services are? We are trying to stay up to date at our
hospital and I can't find anything about it on the internet. How about
questions related to breastfeeding that Joint Commission may be asking at
review time? Thanks in advance.....
Claudia Globerger
RN/IBCLC
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 16:23:38 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Cathy Bargar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Confession
Comments: To: Jean Ridler <[log in to unmask]>
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Jean Ridler -
Thanks for sharing this "confession" with us! I find it perfectly plausible
that a "good" loving, caring, breastfeeding, well-bonded mom might not
notice right away that she had been handed or even nursed the wrong baby.
Esp. if the nurse comes in & hands the baby over, & the baby is acting
hungry (too long in that da** nursery, maybe?), so the mom just latches it
on. Having handed out thousands of babies in my days at the hospital, it
seems that many moms don't necessarily look at the baby all that closely
*before* nsg. In hospitals with central nurseries, feeding has a high
urgency level, and it's *after* the business has been taken care of that
moms generally seem to feel they have the leisure to look, croon, adore,
etc. And during the feeding, it's pretty hard to see the baby's face, so
unless during the previous fdg you'd doted on something specific & easily
visible like an ear, you might not notice. Or you might think "Gee, I didn't
notice that little swirl in her ear last time - very cute!"; and newborns do
change very fast.
As we agree, just one more reason to keep that baby tucked up with mom at
all times!
Cathy Bargar RN, IBCLC Ithaca NY
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 17:11:36 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Paul & Kathy Koch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: ILCA discussion
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Karen Z. and I are list owners on duty while Kathleens A & B are busy with
other responsibilities.
The discussion about Lactnet, ILCA and conferences is becoming old and
non-productive.
Those who wish to continue this discussion are now asked to take it to
private email.
Thank you for your cooperation and understanding.
Kathy Koch
Karen Zeretzke
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kathy Koch, BSEd, IBCLC
Great Mills, MD
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 17:11:19 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Recurrent Mastitis
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The term mastitis (unfortunately) is used interchangeably for both the
inflammation and the infection. Recurrent mastitis can occur when we are
dealing with the inflammation not the infection, when the bacteria is
resistant or not sensitive to the prescribed antibiotic, when antibiotics are
not continued long enough, when the mothers stops nursing on the affected
side, and or when the underlying cause of the mastitis has not been
addressed. Sometimes if it is really the infection that is recurring, the
milk needs to be cultured as well as cultures taken of the infant's naso- and
oropharynx, as it is possible that the baby is reinfecting the mother and
acting as an asymptomatic carrier.
Culture and sensitivity tests often help reveal the right drug for the right
bug.
Marsha Walker, RN, IBCLC
Weston, MA
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 17:48:41 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: "Z" jewelry
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Hi, Lactfolks,
Remember Kathy D.'s "Z" pin idea?
This being conference season, if you're looking for a clandestine Lactnet
greeting, you may enjoy the Z-shaped jewelry (pin and earrings) I've stumbled
upon at a local department store. The pin and each earring look like a gold
ribbon curled in the shape of a "z." (So not only are you a "zealot," but
you're one for the "gold standard of infant feeding.")
If you want to know where I found mine, and the brand, just e-mail me. (No,
I don't work there.)
Well, hope to see at least some of you this summer...
Lisa Mo
LLLL, Bowling Green, KY USA
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 23:08:37 GMT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Magda Sachs <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: BfN The Breastfeeding Network
Subject: mastitis
Natascha says >She is 7 weeks postpartum and has had mastitis 6 times. In the
first week she
developed a severe crack across the tip of her nipple, which healed in such a
way that there is STILL a crack but no soreness, bleeding, or anything. Baby
has oral thrush. <
Ruth Lawrence (4/e and 5/e) describes thrush overgrowth on or in the breast as a
form of mastitis. Mastitis means an inflammation of the breast. It can have a
bacterial cause, or be 'non-infective' -- i.e. be of mechanical origin (e.g.
less than optimal drainage). In this case I would suggest that ductal thrush
overgrowth should be considered. Thrush is fungal in origin and antibiotics
will kill the beneficial bacteria which ordinarily keep any fungus present in
check, and so allow this overgrowth.
Antibiotics provide a powerful anti-inflammatory effect, so it can often seem as
if they have been effective against an infection when they are only performing
the function obtainable from ibuprufen.
Also, in view of the persistant crack, I suggest
*absolutely scrupulous* attention to positioning the baby at the breast and the
attachment of the baby to the breast.
Of course, this may have progressed to bacterial infection after 6 weeks.
Magda Sachs
Breastfeeding Supporter, BfN, UK
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 17:33:34 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: gima <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: oral thrush in adults?
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Cathy B wrote:
>But I've never seen it in any other kind of adult...
Diabetics are highly susceptible to oral thrush after anti-biotics. I also have had several mothers with nipple/breast yeast who also had oral thrush.
Pat Gima, IBCLC
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 17:28:23 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Karen Zeretzke <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: ADMIN note: Juno subscribers and losft
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
Comments: cc: [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask],
[log in to unmask], [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask]
I am *delighted* to report, from the sysops at Juno and lsoft, that the
problem with Juno and L-Soft has been resolved.
Would each of you let anyone you know w/a Juno account that they may now
resubscribe? Since they were automatically deleted, we cannot go back
and send them this message.
Karen Zeretzke
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
[log in to unmask]
[log in to unmask]
http://www.prairienet.org/laleche/bfcost.html
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 20:56:12 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Adoptive bf web page
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Denny -
The adoptive bf page is <A HREF="http://www.fourfriends.com/abrw/"> A.B.R.W.
-The Adoptive Breastfeeding Resource Website
</A> or go to http://www.fourfriends.com/abrw/ Note that this is a NEW
address for this group, so make note of it if you have the old address.
As for books the LLL catalog lists "Breastfeeding the Adopted Baby" by Debra
Stewart Peterson. "Can an adopted baby really be breastfed? Yes! This book
explains step-by-step the process of inducing lactation in a woman who has
not given birth. Adoptive mother Debra Stewart Peterson offers these special
mothers everything they need to enjoy the benefits breastfeeding holds for
both mother and baby." Softcover, 141 pages.
You can also read mother's stories of bf their adopted babies reprinted from
New Beginnings at
<A HREF="http://www.lalecheleague.org/bfadopt.html">LLLI--Adoptive
Breastfeeding
</A>
Cynthia D. Payne, LLLL
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 21:12:55 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
Comments: SoVerNet Verification (on pike.sover.net) oemcomputer from
arc1a254.bf.sover.net [209.198.80.254] 209.198.80.254 Fri, 4 Jun
1999 21:19:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: kersula family <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: My baby my own
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The discussion of baby smells has been lovely. I always loved the smells of
my babies and was startled to discover, as a labor and delivery nurse, that
some of my moms smell like my babies. Talk about bonding! I sure remember
their names!
Dawn Kersula, Green Mtn Mama in So VT, just back from not-so-sunny mid-CA
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 21:26:36 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Down's babies
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Just a note to let you know that 20 plus years ago, I was helpful in getting
a Downs baby to breastfeed, from 1 suck to 150 sucks and then to feeding very
well at the breast, for more than two years. This baby went on to win an
award, one open to all children not just Downs, or handicaped, it was a video
she made for the Chicago Childrens Film festival. She breastfed after her
heart surgery and was cared for by a very loving Mother and Father, who do
believe that Breastmilk made a difference in their daughter.
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 21:24:22 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: PrMechell Roberts Turner <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re-mastitis mom:
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for this 7 week postpartum mom why oh why has the thrush not been treated in
iether of them. why has the diet not been alterd and - guess the
positioning is ok. try lowering the milk supply with a lttle homeopthic lac
caninum not much but just enoughto cut back on supply. phytolacca will help
with the other mastitis ( use homeopathic 30c). castor equi wil help to heal
the crack. also another trick for fenugreek. grind the seeds in the coffee
grinder. pour hot water over the ground seeds appliy to cloth and make a
poultice with them see if this will help.
mechell turner
-----Original Message-----
From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
To: Recipients of LACTNET digests <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Friday, June 04, 1999 1:14 PM
Subject: LACTNET Digest - 4 Jun 1999 - Special issue (#1999-9)
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 21:55:03 -0400
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From: Cindy Curtis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: First Years Pump
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I have had a few patient try it and were not all that pleased. esp the ones
who later used the Lactina or the PNS, they much preferred them
Cindy
Cindy Curtis,RN,IBCLC
mailto:[log in to unmask]
http://www.erols.com/cindyrn
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 22:10:18 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Cindy Curtis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ILCA Conference discussion
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Kathy D said :
Anyone want to go to onelist and set something up
specifically for Scottsdale?
No need to set up a limited time list when Babyconferences already exists
and can be used for this! ;0)
Cindy
Cindy Curtis,RN,IBCLC
mailto:[log in to unmask]
http://www.erols.com/cindyrn
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 22:19:39 EDT
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From: "Jennifer Winkleman, PA-C" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Apology
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My last post was supposed to be private and thank goodness it wasn't. I
quoted some info on prolactin and credited it to K. Auerbach, when the actual
info I was recall was originally made by K. Dettwyler. My sincere apologies
to both women.
Jennifer Winkleman
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Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 02:58:07 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Eddie & Maryke Barclay <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Breastmilk Programs: US Federal Employees
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Dear Lactnetters
I have recently joined Lactnet and really enjoy the discussion. I've been
sort of out of the breastfeeding scene for a while due to an international
move (South Africa to Ireland) and so I am wondering whether the following
news has reached some of you. If not, I'm sure you will agree this is a
step forward - if it is indeed old news to you, forgive me!
It is from a newsletter for US federal employees that was passed on to me
via one of my husband's colleagues. As it is a long newsletter, I deleted
all the irrelevant parts and copy here just paragraph 7.
How to go about putting pressure on the different federal agencies to
consider implementing The Office of Personnel Management's recommendations?
Any federal employees on Lactnet with ideas? (I am the spouse of a federal
employee at the US State Dept, but will do my bit for what it is worth)
Maryke Barclay
LLL Leader and student IBCLC exam 99
Dublin, Ireland
"Subject: Breastmilk Programs: US Federal Employees
FEDweek Newsletter, Wednesday May 1999 Issue
The FREE Weekly Newsletter for Federal Employees
at: http://www.fedweek.com. FEDweek is the fastest growing
newsletter in the federal government.
...7. OPM Promoting On-Site Breast Milk Programs The Office of Personnel
Management says that in keeping with President Clinton's "family
friendly"
workplace policies, federal agencies should set up programs that allow
mother's to produce breast milk while at work. Here's what OPM says:
"Not
long ago breast-feeding was considered a private affair, solely carried
out in the home. But today, many mothers are choosing to continue
breast-feeding after they return to work. In order for mothers to keep
producing ample supplies of milk, so they can avoid using formula
supplements, nursing mothers need to pump their milk during the workday.
Because of the large numbers of mothers choosing to do this, many
corporations and federal agencies are beginning to offer lactation
programs to working mothers who return to the job after being on leave
for
the birth of a child. It doesn't require a lot of money to set up a
nursing mothers program. At a bare minimum, all that is required is a
room
with an outlet, refrigerator and chair that can be used as a pumping
station."
FEDweek
Publisher, Don Mace ([log in to unmask])
Subscriptions, Kevin L. Couch ([log in to unmask])
Website: http://www.fedweek.com
Published weekly by FEDweek LLC -
Putting Federal Employees and Retirees First"
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 21:51:05 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: John McCulloch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: adult oral thrush
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Judy said:
<Having had oral thrush myself, I have a lot of sympathy for babies--it
<hurts like hell! I really don't know how infants continue to thrive
<while they have it. I lost 20 pounds in about 3 weeks and looked like a
<walking skeleton before I was cured. If more adults got it, we would
<treat babies who got it a lot more aggressively.
Judy,
I am so sorry to hear that this happened to you and that you were in so much
pain.
As for the reason why infants continue to thrive while they have thrush,
well-
I would be willing to bet it is because of the fact that breastmilk is so
soothing and easy on their systems. We adults just don't get to enjoy the
benefits of that wonderful breastmilk.
Just a thought. :o)
Lori McCulloch
WIC Breastfeeding Coordinator TX
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 22:54:24 EDT
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: mastitis
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Natascha,
Another approach to your mom who has the nipple with the crack still open is
to apply antibotic cream to the nipple.
There was a study out of Canada a couple years ago and then a presentation at
one of the ABM (Academy of Brfdg Medicin) mtgs on this approach. The physcian
divided treatments of mom's with crack nipples. Those who recieved antibotic
cream to the nipples did not dev mastitis, where those in the group who did
not use antibotic cream had incidents of mastitis. I'm sorry I do not know
the author. She used Bactroban.
Ann Perry RN IBCLC
Boston, Mass
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Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 07:13:53 +0200
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From: Lorne Currie <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Thanks
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I would so sincerely like to thanks you wonderful girls for your advice
and support - it truly helped me - your a so special! I have printed all
the messages out and will keep them! Jean Ridler from Cape Town got me
interested in Lactnet and I still thank you Jean!
I would like to clarify something - the mohter that fed the wrong baby
is a dear friend of mine and also the hospital's Social Worker! When she
fell pregnant I started to coach her - she was fed on the "Womanly Art",
Jack's notes (all my patients get to read Jack's notes - funny they keep
disappearing!) She had just had her Caesar and come back from theatre We
were both so excited about getting the baby on the breast. We do not have
rooming-in at night but during the day certainly. This Nurse just brought
the wrong baby! I get the baby of all Caesar patients to the breast as
soon as I can. We are moving to a new ward and every patient will have
their own room and guess what is going to happen at night? - Rooming-in.
Really going to push for it.
I have not heard from the upper eschalons yet. Be sure I will be
having my say re formula etc etc etc. I am also writing to the hospital
lawyer.
Thanks once again.
Barbie Currie (whose nerves have been restored to normality with help from
my friends!)
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Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 08:10:54 +0300
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From: Esther <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: oops! wrong baby..happened to me too!!
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I can totally understand how you could feed the wrong baby!!
Fifteen years ago this week I gave birth to my youngest daughter,
Sari. I decided to spoil myself and have a private room and asked for
the possibility of having my baby with me all the time, a concept at
that time unheard of in Israel and the response was similar to the
response if I had asked for a poisonous snake in my room. "What for?"
with this face of disgust, as they walked away muttering "crazy
American!"
In fact, due to the fact that my second baby had died within 24 hours
of her birth, of hypoplastic left heart, I wasn't allowed to have my
babies in my room even for feeds so that they could be "observed" in
the nursery. As a matter of fact, after the death of my baby, I totally
lost all autonomy in subsequent births.....The first two births were
natural with no meds and when Elana decided to emerge 8 months after the
death of her sister, ( there were rumours that I had gotten pregnant in
the recovery room) I was told that I HAD to have an epidural because we
didn't know the "quality" of this baby. I hated it. It was like
watching someone else give birth. And don't think that I am such a
high-pain-threshold person.....I need a shot of novacaine just to read
the magazines in the dentist office.
Sorry, back on track. I had to go to the nursery to feed Sari every 4
hours and in the early morning feed the morning after her birth, I
noticed that her little face was much less swollen and that her
abundant hair had calmed down and was no longer standing up. Just as I
was opening my gown to feed her I suddenly noticed that she had a blue
bracelet instead of a pink one. Only then did I get the feeling that
something was wrong. I only do girls!
I managed to read the name on the bracelet which was Unis instead of
Grunis, so when I had said my name to the nurse, she heard only part of
it.
Thus, I made a big scandal and guess what, I was probably the first
woman in Israel to have Rooming In !!! My compensation was to have my
baby with me at all times!!
The point of the story is that babies change so much in the first days
that it could happen....especially if the general coloring is similar.
Or the epidural which they forced on me, or the fact that I had limited
access to my baby. Perhaps all of the above. Yet another reason in
support of keeping moms and babies together. Perhaps we should stress
this point in pre-natal classes. Maybe that would work better to
counter " You are tired dear, you need your rest!"
Esther Grunis, IBCLC
Tel Aviv, Israel
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Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 07:32:53 +0200
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Lorne Currie <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re the baby.
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Sorry I forgot to mention (just got up) that the baby of the Caesar had been
taken to the nursery to have its vital statistics done - the baby has
already put on 700g in two weeks and Mum is delighted and love her
breastfeeding!
Barbie Currie
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Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 07:33:02 +0200
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Lorne Currie <[log in to unmask]>
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Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 22:14:42 +1000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kim & Anthony Short <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Breastfeeding Fraternity
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I hope this is appropriate to send on Lactnet but I felt I must write to =
let all of you know what a wonderful support group the worldwide =
Breastfeeding fraternity is. 7 weeks ago my gorgeous 31 year old husband =
was tragically killed when his Royal Australian Air Force F-111 jet =
crashed into a mountainous island off Malaysia. On that very day I =
happened to be a guest lecturer to several hundred people at a Nursing =
Mother's Counsellors Conference in Brisbane. It was a very public =
accident , making the papers in every state in Australia. I received =
literally hundreds of e-mails, cards, bouquets of flowers and phone =
calls from Nursing mothers groups Australia wide - most from people who =
had only heard of me through the conference. It was a tremendous support =
and encouragement to my 3 young children and myself. For any Australians =
reading this who have sent flowers and messages- thank you from the =
bottom of my heart.
DR. KIM SHORT MBBS,IBCLC
BRISBANE, AUSTRALIA
PS. My husband's navigator was naturally killed as well. His wife is =
presently breastfeeding their only child age 12 months. The baby has =
been totally disrupted due to mother's stress and is waking 5-7 times a =
night and my friend is desperate. Any ideas on how to help her?
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Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 08:53:09 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Cari Friedman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 14 Oct 1998 - Special issue
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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congratulations on your exams...!!! Question: could reading lactnet count for
practice hrs. to take exam?(One would think it a reasonable idea..!)
Cari(New Paltz,NY)
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Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 10:20:48 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: First Years Pump
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Thanx to all of you for your input. Unfortunately, the pump is not a concern
to this mom who went to her ped yesterday and was told that it was not
necessary to clip the tongue, that ABM was just as good and she should switch
to the bottle "immediately" because of her sore nipples. Don't want to put
"guilt" on this mom, do we? She was not hearing me last night and decided to
do what her doctor said because she and her husband were ABM fed and they
have no problems. Just wait until they get to be my age (I qualified for
granny LC this year) and have to fight all the health problems that I do,
thanks to S***L**C,evaporated milk,karo syrup, & goat's milk. This young new
lady ped needs some BF education!!!!!!!! I told the mom that if I may be of
any help in the future, please let me know--hoping the ABM was not well
tolerated last night! Glad for this opportunity to vent.
Alice Ernest, LLLL, IBCLC
Simpsonville, SC
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Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 10:30:25 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Subject: Re: Alcohol
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Had a call from a Mom this a.m. who drank 4 beers last night, finished
drinking at 1 a.m., called me about 9:30 a.m. Baby is 6 1/2 weeks old. She
thought she had enough pumped milk to cover the feedings, but ran out this
a.m. She had been told to "pump&dump" and give ABM if needed. Smart baby is
refusing formula. Read from Lawrence, Hale, and BAB, which say l oz. clears
in 3 hrs. This sounds like a tricky math ?, but when would you say that it
would be okay to BF again? Mom decided that she will try to get some ABM
down the baby and then BF the next feeding. Just curious.
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Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 10:33:42 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Subject: Alcohol
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Oops! Forgot my signature line in this post.
Alice Ernest LLLL, IBCLC
Simpsonville, SC
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Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 11:15:26 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Anne Grider <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: complicated case
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-----Original Message-----
From: Barbara Wilson-Clay <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Thursday, June 03, 1999 7:01 PM
Subject: complicated case
>I want to briefly share the details of the presenting problems of a consult
>I did today:
>
>Mother is a 40 yr old primip with a hx of fertility problms which required
>progesterone therapy to maintain the preg.
>She did not exper. any breast changes during the preg.
>She had a breast reduction in 1991, and has reduced nipple sensation. Is
>pumping with hospt. grade pump about 6 x per 24 hrs and gets max. 2 oz
total
>each pumping.
>She had gestational diabetes.
>Baby was induced at 37 weeks.
>Delivery was unusually rapid and resulted in baby having broken clavicle.
>Baby was aggressively suctioned after the birth, which was repeated on 2
>additional occasions in the nursery.
>Baby is under birth weight at 14 days, very sleepy, and has had episodes of
>nasal regurgitation, prolonged crying spells, and aversive feeding behavior
>when bottle fed. Mother offers her at least 18 oz per 24 hrs by bottle,
but
>baby often falls asleep bottle feeding and won't take all the milk she is
>offered. She falls asleep at breast after 2-3 sucks.
>
>I have a plan to manage this case, but I thought it would be fun to throw
>out the situation for discussion and brain storming.
>
>
>Barbara Wilson-Clay, BSEd, IBCLC
>Austin Lactation Associates, Austin, Texas
>http://www.jump.net/~bwc/lactnews.html
>Where are all the responses to your request? I'll brave the waters here.
It occurs to me that at just 2 weeks postpartum and pumping only 6 times per
day with little or no baby stim at breast, we still don't know what these
breasts are capable of doing. Also, this baby is for all intents and
purposes behaving like a premature. I am assuming that her clavicle is not
causing her unusual distress at this point.
In an ideal world, I'd begin by putting them to bed for the weekend. A good
supporter would be essential. She/he would keep the room clean and sweet
smelling and prepare for mother the comfort foods of her youth, and kindly
reroute all phone calls and guests. Mother and baby would rest in almost
constant skin to skin contact with baby placed at breast at every cue. When
attached to the breast no one would jiggle baby or otherwise disturb her
with talking, noise or bright light. Nor would baby be removed from breast
if she were asleep but otherwise well attached. Additionally, mother would
pump 8 to 10 times per day during this "Babymoon" . If baby wakes up and
begins to nurse well, mother or her supporter may pump the opposite breast
during nursings, instead. Any pumped milk would be offered to baby by cup
or bottle, as mother and baby prefer, whenever baby was able. Hindmilk
could be spooned off the top of EBM to give baby some extra energy, also.
Voids would be charted.
On Monday,(or at the beginning, if a weekend together could not be arranged)
baby would be placed in Kangaroo Care to "live" most of the time, and
mother would follow as much of the above as she could manage on her own
until all nursing problems are resolved. A daily weight check with rented
digital scales would help mother determine if/when a formula supplement is
needed, or if further decline was noted, when to contact the pediatrician
for further assistance.
I certainly hope others will stick their necks out with mine. It's scarey
out here!
Anne Grider, IBCLC, Private Practice, Marietta, Georgia
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Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 17:50:28 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Alcohol
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> Had a call from a Mom this a.m. who drank 4 beers last night, finished
>drinking at 1 a.m., called me about 9:30 a.m. Baby is 6 1/2 weeks old. She
>thought she had enough pumped milk to cover the feedings, but ran out this
>a.m. She had been told to "pump&dump" and give ABM if needed. Smart baby is
>refusing formula. Read from Lawrence, Hale, and BAB, which say l oz. clears
>in 3 hrs. This sounds like a tricky math ?, but when would you say that it
>would be okay to BF again? Mom decided that she will try to get some ABM
>down the baby and then BF the next feeding. Just curious.
Alice - check archive for recent discussion on this.
In the UK we would say there is *no need* to pump. I am assuming that
four beers would equal about 2 pints. That would be regarded as a moderate
amount here. No need for baby to have anything other than breast milk, but
if she is really worried, she can be assured that once the alcohol has
disappeared from her blood, it is no longer in her milk. On my reckoning,
she would no longer be under the effects of alcohol by the morning after
her drinking....
If you really want to know my opinion - and that's all it is! - well, I
think it is crazy to pump and dump in these circumstances. The risks to her
baby, and to her breastfeeding, far outweigh the negligible risks of the
beers. The archives will reveal that not everyone agrees with this.
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK.
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Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 12:55:52 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Susan Keith-Hergert <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Alcohol
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I have always told moms that alcohol gets into the milk quickly and, by the
time mom is over the affects of it the level is low enough to resume
feeding. This mom has waited plenty long enough IMHO. The most I've ever
seen anyone wait to resume feeds is 8 hours and that was after having three
black russians at a class reunion. She did feel sick for 8 hours.
Susan
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Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 18:05:13 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: complicated case
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Okay, Anne, I'll leap in, too.
I think your suggestion of a babymoon is sound - and pumping 6 times a day
is, as you suggest, not enough.
I think the aggressive suctioning - done three times, for goodness sake :
( - is likely to have contributed to this baby's reluctance to feed. The
baby has also been in the nursery, which means separation from mother.
Broken clavicle, too.....
What a bad, bad start to bf.
No surprise this baby is still under birthweight (you don't say what that
was, Barbara, or if the baby is still losing weight). Given this terrible
start and the poor advice about pumping, we just don't know how much, if at
all, the mother's history is contributing. We also don't know if the
baby's sleepiness is a result of poor feeding, or partly poor feeding, or
something else.
Very first step is to *get this baby and this mother together* for as many
hours as possible out of the 24 - and to increase expressing. I would also
want the baby checked by a bf friendly and knowledgeable
paediatrician...but straight away.
Then review after a day or so.
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 13:24:58 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: mastitis
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Natascha:
an alternative is calendula - it is anit bacterial/antifungal and has
excellent healing properties
Patricia
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Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 14:03:43 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Mary Renard <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: four beers
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If the mother was awake and aware enough to place the call this morning,
then she was sufficiently recovered to nurse the baby! It sounds like she
needs to be reminded that breasts are not bottles that store milk - once the
beer is out of her system, it's also out of her milk.
Mary Renard, RN, BSN, IBCLC
Vienna Virginia USA
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Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 15:44:43 -0400
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From: Cathy Bargar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: 4 beers/OK to BF?
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I gotta say (at the risk of having my head chopped off here), that I'd tell
this mom to just go ahead and nurse the baby ASAP! Remind her to drink a lot
of water so she's well-hydrated & "flushing" and get on with it; I'd say
that at 6 wks the baby is less likely to be harmed by whatever's left &
getting through the milk than by formula, or by monkeying around trying feed
the baby in some unfamiliar way & getting into the spiral of balkiness.
Cathy Bargar RN, IBCLC Ithaca NY
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Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 12:48:21 +0000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Becky Flora <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: breast lump in nursing toddler
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First an introduction since I am new to Lactnet:
My name is Becky Flora. I am the mother of four breastfed children and am
currently nursing my 22 month old. I have worked with breastfeeding mothers
for about six years and am qualified to sit for the board exam in July of
this year.
I have searched the archives for this and although I did come up with some
notes of similar content, nothing I was able to find answered all my
questions. Hopefully some of you can!
I am working with a mother who is currently nursing an almost 18 month old.
About 3 weeks ago, she noticed a hard lump in her daughter's right breast.
After conferring with the pedi, it was suggested that this was due to
breastfeeding and would need to be checked in about a month and tests
performed if it was still present. The pedi also raised question as to how
much longer the mother intended to breastfeed. The mother, fearful of tests
and the cause of the lump, decided to commence weaning since she had heard
that estrogen in the milk could cause this in the baby/child.
Three weeks have now passed and the baby is only nursing once a day. The
lump, however, is much larger in size.
The mother is currently taking a progestin-only oral contraceptive -
Norenthindrone - and is using two inhalents twice daily to treat her asthma
symptoms - Flovent and Serevent. She is taking no other
medications/herbs/etc. She nor the baby consume or have consumed any soy
products in the past. I mention this because in my search I found a
reference to soy formula containing estrogen.
My questions are: Is this condition truly more often present in breastfed
babies, and if so, is it linked to estrogen in the milk as this mother has
been led to believe? I know that swollen breasts are common in newborns due
to hormones still present in the infant's system, but how does this
translate to the breastfed baby? If this is related to breastfeeding, why
might it just now occur after 17 months of nursing? If it is related to
estrogen in the milk, is weaning really indicated? I think not, but want to
make sure I am covering all the bases.
I certainly will suggest a second opinion, but want to also be able to shed
more light for this mom if possible. I truly appreciate any and all input!
Thanks!
Becky Flora
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Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 17:00:46 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kermaline J Cotterman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Placental fragments
< you might consider having this mom checked for placnetal fragments.>
I thought retained placental fragments were associated with delayed
lactogenesis and/or low supply, not oversupply.
If I remember correctly, I think the mechanism is supposed to be an
incomplete fall in the progesterone level due to the remaining fragments,
and therefore inhibition of prolactin secretion. Also, this would occur
in the immediate or early postpartum period, well before 7 weeks.
While writing this, the question occurred to me as to whether the
mini-pill, and also, depo-provera, which is derivative of progesterone,
might, by the same mechanism, just be taking over prolactin inhibition
and causing supply problems if given in the hospital before discharge.
I know the PDR says it should not be given until 6 weeks postpartum to
breastfeeding women, but in their urgent desire to prevent pregnancy in
teens especially, I am not certain that HCP's in our area are always
following this guideline.
Comments, anyone?
K. Jean Cotterman RNC, IBCLC
Dayton, Ohio
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Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 17:45:24 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Barbara Wilson-Clay <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: complicated case
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It's been fun receiving the private responses to the complicated case I
presented, and bravo to the brave souls who went public with their
suggestions. I will share what I did, and keep you posted from time to time
on how it is working. I want to remind everyone that there is more than one
way to be right, so if you would have managed it differently, I think there
is room for other opinions. I'll risk being wrong in public by keeping you
informed of the outcomes of my interventions.
What I decided was that there were essentially 2 complicated cases: The
mother had very suspicious indicators in her health hx which make her high
risk for impaired production. She had the most invasive kind of breast
surgery -- reduction mammaplasty. Periareolar scars and reduced nipple
sensation indicate both ductal severing and nerve impairment. These cannot
be fixed by management, altho every attempt should be made to maximize her
production. Additionally, she had a progesterone imbalance which caused
infertility. Did she ever experience enough ductal and alveolar
proliferation to support full lactation? Her lack of breast changes during
preg. suggest she may not have. While she was only double pumping 6 times a
day by the time I saw her, she was nursing constantly, carrying baby
non-stop and feeding in a variety of positions with lots of rousing
techniques. I am not saying herbal galactagogues wouldn't help, and I've
started her on some, but I suspect it is not prolactin which she lacks, but
an intact nipple to brain pathway and sufficient glandular development. I
have done the expected things such as upping the number of pumpings, etc.
but I will be surprised it her milk supply comes up much.
The second set of issues surround this feeding-aversive infant. It took
several days in the hospt. to identify the broken clavicle, and by then baby
had been manipulated in feeding positions which I suspect caused her pain.
She is very "shut down" in terms of affect. Additionally, as some pointed
out, the 3 deep suctionings have probably created a very sore throat, and
perhaps some damage to swallowing ability. Baby has been fed with very fast
flowing nipples because everyone is so worried about her weight problem that
they are pouring milk into her, and I think this has added to her aversion.
She weighed about 7lb 8 oz at birth and is 7lb2 oz at 14 days -- the same
weight she presented with on Day 9. Remember, for a week she has been
OFFERED a full daily compliment of milk/formula by bottle. She should be
very hungry and yet won't eat what is provided. That suggests a swallowing
or a respiratory prob. Observing her bottle feed was the clue. She forgets
to breathe while feeding. She takes one swallow after another until she
runs out of air and starts to stress. She chokes, spits, arches, frowns,
and since mother holds this fast flowing bottle in with grim determination,
baby does the only thing she can to get mom to quit: she closes her eyes
and plays possum.
I got a slow flow teat, showed mom to pull bottle out to rest tip on lips
every 2 swallows to allow for catch-up breathing. In a few min. baby was
pacing her swallowing and breathing better. She opened her eyes, relaxed
her face and body language, and took 3 oz! When she fell asleep, she was
laid down in a supine position. In a few min. she made a terrible face and
spit up a bit and began to cry. I think she also has a reflux prob. So I
suspect pain, a swallowing prob. and reflux are contributing to her
reluctance to fully feed. Shoulder and throat pain will resolve with time,
pacing respirations with swallowing can be helped by better bottle-feeding
technique. Reflux can be treated. If we can do these things while still
keeping baby nursing for comfort, she will begin to breastfeed. Because
remember, she likes the breast now precisely because she can latch on and
NOT SUCK. She really hasn't liked anything with a flow rate, so we have to
work back from that point and make her confidant that swallowing doesn't
hurt before during and after feeding. In my opinion, cup feeding would be
risky for a baby such as this one with swallowing problems.
The plan will be to get her weight and energy up with pumped milk/formula in
a way that doesn't cause her more distress, restores her trust, and gets her
energy up.
I'll keep you posted on how efforts to increase milk prod. work.
Barbara Wilson-Clay, BSEd, IBCLC
Austin Lactation Associates, Austin, Texas
http://www.jump.net/~bwc/lactnews.html
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Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 18:57:52 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: complicated case
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Anne:
I would add fenugreeek/blessed thistle and goats rue 3 x a day!
Patricia
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Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 20:14:22 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Lu Bush <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: complicated case
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I just cannot resist anymore since I worked with this woman in the hospital.
This is one of those times to be reminded of how information may not be
absorbed or is forgotten and that the history is more than what the parents
may report.
This was a very involved case, baby was early, mother's breast are
irreparably damaged, the clavicle was not an issue earlier because this baby
did NOT respond with any pain. Mother started pumping the day of delivery
and has every written bit of information on how often to pump and
supplementation of the baby. Mother had lots of attention, appropriate
concerns for the milk supply and keeping the baby fed. This little one did
not wish to latch at all, ever, in spite of lots of skin to skin, etc.
I am really thrilled that this mother is hanging in with the breastfeeding
at all, considering the challenges. These challenges were not caused by
mismanagement or neglect.
OK, feeling less defensive now.
Thanks, Lu Bush, BSN,RNC, IBCLC, Austin, TX
----- Original Message -----
> What a bad, bad start to bf.
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Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 22:36:31 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: lisa mooney RN <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Health problems r/t ABM
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I really enjoyed the comment on the later ill health effects of ABM. I was
not breastfed nor were my parents and my father was diagnosed with Celiac
Disease last week, an allergy to the gluten in wheat that causes destruction
of the villi in the small intestine, which causes malabsorption. I have
similar symtpoms and now have to cut out all wheat in my diet, not an easy
task. I was fed cows milk because I refused formula (smart baby) and took
very little cow's milk. I was always in the 5th percentile or less for
weight. My parents are not supportive of my desire to be a LC, they don't
believe HM has advantages. From the reading I have done the cause is
multifactorial(genetic and the prescence of an adenovirus attaching to the
intestinal lining causing initial damage to the villi and then triggering the
disease later in life). I am a little perterbed that breastfeeding still does
not get the credit it deserves. Since HM coats the intestine and protects it
the possibility for ABM being a factor in the later development of this
disease is high . Celiac disease could be yet another allergy prevented by
breastfeeding.Sincerely, Lisa Mooney, RN, BSN ( taking the CLC exam in JULY
99) Perhaps you can share this with the parents who chose ABM over
HM......How can a large percentage of people believe that as mammals we
create a species specific milk for our young and that it is not far superior
to any thing man made??? IT boggles the mind.... Science is merely the
systematic observation of Mother Nature's Perfection
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Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 23:10:21 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: PrMechell Roberts Turner <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: formula recall
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well all
just heard on the news that 7,000 bottles of PROSOBEE infant formula are
being recalled. These are 4-pack bottles and, they have expiration date of
nov 1 99. these bottles contain an adult formula called SUSTACAL. if the
infant recieves this he can experience dehydration, digestive upset and
intestinal difficultiesl. Well this at least is responsible for a recall.
How many babies are injuried. Breastmilk doesnt have recalls- except for
more.
Mechell Turner
-----Original Message-----
From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
To: Recipients of LACTNET digests <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Saturday, June 05, 1999 1:05 PM
Subject: LACTNET Digest - 4 Jun 1999 to 5 Jun 1999 - Special issue
(#1999-13)
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Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 23:15:53 EDT
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Pump rebate coupons
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I rented a pump tonight to one of the secretaries in Dr Ed Newton's office.
She is determined to be successful at BFing and has found my help to be
valuable and is very complementary. I told her to point out to Dr Newton this
is why the hospital needs an IBCLC on staff!!!
Anyway, she asked if I would take the coupon for the $10 off a pump purchase
that came with that cute little bag from the hospital. I explained the Code
and why the bag and coupon violated the Code and no I couldn't give her $10
off the price because those coupons did not come from the pump rental company
or from me. She was appalled when I explained some of the politics behind the
discharge packs, marketing of ABM, etc. She wanted to know why something
isn't being done to stop this unethical behavior.
Interesting question???
I told her she may want to write a letter to the hospital CEO and copy it to
the Board of Directors with a copy of the Code and ask them why they are
participating in behaviors which are in violation of this Code.
She said I certainly knew alot more about BFing then those nurses at the
hospital!!!
I needed that!
Barbara Whitehead, IBCLC
Ayden NC
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Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 23:41:50 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 5 Jun 1999 - Special issue (#1999-14)
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In a message dated 6/5/99 11:17:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<< just heard on the news that 7,000 bottles of PROSOBEE infant formula are
being recalled. These are 4-pack bottles and, they have expiration date of
nov 1 99. these bottles contain an adult formula called SUSTACAL. if the
infant recieves this he can experience dehydration, digestive upset and
intestinal difficultiesl. Well this at least is responsible for a recall.
How many babies are injuried. Breastmilk doesnt have recalls- except for
more. >>
I wonder why it took so long for the company to find this mistake and do a
recall? I think the article said this batch was shipped last fall.
Barbara Whitehead, IBCLC
Ayden NC
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Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 23:53:28 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Cindy Curtis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pump rebate coupons
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The coupons I saw said for the patient to mail them directly to the formula
company along with a receipt for the pump and that the formula company would
mail them the 10.00, clever way to get more moms on the mailing list !
Cindy
Cindy Curtis,RN,IBCLC
mailto:[log in to unmask]
http://www.erols.com/cindyrn
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Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 23:06:23 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: "Denny Rice, RN, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: breast lump
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Becky, Why on earth are all the possibilities not being explored? Just because
she nurses, we have to jump to the conclusion that, once again, if anything is
wrong, it must be due to breastfeeding!
What if it turns out to be something else, something that requires powerful
drugs or surgery, and she needs to nurse more than ever, and mom has weaned?
Denny Rice, RN, IBCLC
Dallas, TEXAS
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 01:08:03 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: bottle ad, reposte
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I haven't seen any response, so am reposting. Surely someone can tell me if
any of this is true.
I received an ad in with some other stuff today for a "special" bottle. It
has a seperate place for powdered formula and the water so that it can be
mixed as needed. Kinda like some I have seen in the hospital for some meds.
The interesting part is the ad: "Bacteria begins to grow the instant
powdered formula is mixed! FDA: *always mix adn serve immediately. USDA:
*Formula can spoil within 1hr. at room temp. *Feed infants within 30 min. of
mixing. Healthy Baby, Happy Mom."
Anyone have these figures from the sourses- FDA AND USDA? I'd like to use
them in bf classes. Since I have never fed my children formula I was not
"up" on the latest time frames. In my past life of working in a NICU we used
to use the formula for 2 feeds, a 3 hour time frame; pouring it into another
container for the feeding to minimize waste.
Evonne Davison RN IBCLC
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 09:51:55 +0200
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: "A. Bon" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: calendula, was Re: mastitis
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Calendula is allergenic. I'm rvery eluctant to prescribe all kind of ointments
that are never proven te be safe.
Annelies
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 05:43:02 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: gima <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Breastfeeding Fraternity
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>PS. My husband's navigator was naturally killed as well. His wife is presently breastfeeding their only child age 12 months. The baby has been totally disrupted due to mother's stress and is waking 5-7 times a night and my friend is desperate. Any ideas on how to help her?
My heart and caring are with both of you, and your families.
I would recommend that she share sleep with the baby. It would be comforting and healing for both of them, and would assure that she get the rest that she needs.
If they haven't shared sleep before this time, it might take a few days for her to get used to it, but I suspect that she isn't sleeping too well anyway. That prolactin and oxytocin will be a gift to her.
Pat Gima, IBCLC
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 08:03:15 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: M-J study
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: March97: Breastfeeding moms...
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 18:04:54 -0500
From: "Miriam Lawrence" <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
To: "March97 List" <[log in to unmask]>
Want to help me write a letter? I just received a letter (copied
below) in
the mail about a study. They want exclusively breastfed male babies
for the
study, and they will introduce formula in their third month twice a
day.
Even Mead Johnson admits that breastmilk is the very best for baby -
yet
they are encouraging formula feeding with a reward of $400. Want to
help me
write a letter telling them what breastfeeding moms think of this? I
don't
know why this irks me so much, but read the letter below......
(disclaimer to the formula feeding moms - I'm not saying formula
feeding is
evil :-))
Miriam
---the letter.....
We have been contacted by researchers at the Center for Human
Nutrition,
University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, concerning an infant
nutrition study they are conducting. They would like to ask you and
your
child to be a part of their study. They are interested in looking at
the
nutrition of infants to learn more about their nutritional
requirements. An
infant's eating habits affect physical and developmental growth as
well as
overall health.
This study is for male babies who are exclusively breast-fed for the
first
three months. Formula will be introduced during the third month -
three to
four ounces twice a day. The study is looking at zinc absorption in
babies
supplemented with either high or low iron formula.
For your participation you will be provided formula for the three
weeks of
the study, the use of an electric breast pump, and $400.00 for the
successful completion of the study. The study is conducted at home.
We have reviewed the credentials of the researchers and found them to
be in
good order. They have been doing similar research for over two decades
in
the Denver-Metropolitan area. This project is being sponsored by Mead
Johnson and has been reviewed and approved by the Colorado Multiple
Institutional Review Board of the University of Colorado Health
Sciences
Center.
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 08:10:52 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: glenn <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: formula recall
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> << just heard on the news that 7,000 bottles of PROSOBEE infant formula are
> being recalled. These are 4-pack bottles and, they have expiration date of
> nov 1 99. these bottles contain an adult formula called SUSTACAL. if the
> infant recieves this he can experience dehydration, digestive upset and
> intestinal difficultiesl.
All part of the plan to get us ALL on this artificial stuff from the
day we're born until the day we die.
I never used to be a conspiracy theorist, but the more I see of the
ABM industry, the more radical I get!
BTW, as an update on the March of Dimes bottle-money-collector-thing,
I DID get it removed from the school *or so I thought.* I opened my
local paper yesterday to see a big picture of the kids & the sponsors
(Abbott Labs). The kids were holding, you guessed it, those darn
bottles! They must have hidden them for *my* benefit. <sigh>
Teresa G. in NC
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 08:29:30 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Formula Recalls
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This last recall of infant formula that actually contained an adult formula
is one of a long line of recalls and market withdrawals of infant feeding
products. From the high levels of arsenic found in some baby food jars to
dangerous bacteria and manufacturing errors, infant formula and baby food
remains vulnerable to manmade errors. Fortunately, nature has constructed a
pretty good natural food and feeding method.
I maintain a record of all the formula and baby food recalls in the US. If
anyone would like a copy let me know. I have used this document in numerous
discussions with hospitals and health care providers who mistakenly think
that infant formula is somehow exempt from unsavory manufacturing errors.
Marsha Walker, RN, IBCLC
Weston, MA
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 08:15:01 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Steve Salop and Judith Gelman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: toddler breast lump
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Dear Becky--
First, it is unusual for young children to have premature breast
development whethr they are nursing or not. If there is a maternal
"cause" of the lump, it may be the estrogen in the minipill. Why wasn't
she told to terminate it's use? There are more and better alternative
contraceptives available and less and worse alternative infant food
sources available. Why wouldn't the doctor recommend a diaphragm and
continued breastfeeding, rather than ABM and continued bc pills?
Second, unilateral premature breast development does occur. It has been
discussed on Lactnet extensively in the past. Check the old archives. My
own daughter had it at about age 3. Freaked me out. I was a La Leche
League LEader and AAPL at the time and I couldn't find much reassuring
information. Knowing all I did, I still wondered if it had to do with my
hormones and her nursing so much. I don't know what I would have done
it my medical advisors had pointed the finger at her frequent nursing as
the possible cause. Luckily my pediatricians, 3 women who nursed their
own children into toddlerhood and pre-schoolerhood, were extremely
supportive. Their hypothesis was that the breast development occurred in
part because my daughter had been extremely thin as an infant (severe
food allergies had a role in that) and then gained weight rapidly.
Premature breast development is more common in girls who have
experienced this pattern. In terms of action, they measured and watched
and told me to stop obsessing and checking daily. My daughter's case
resolved--although it took years. She is now 15 and there is no
evidence of abnormal development.
Best of luck--
Judy Gelman, IBCLC
Washington, DC
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 08:41:49 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Formula recalls
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Here is info on two recent formula recalls:
In today's paper (Bryan/College Station Eagle, Sunday, June 6th, 1999), in
the first section, but on page 4, left column, bottom:
"Infant formula manufacturer recalls cans"
Associated Press, Evansville, Indiana
Mead Johnson Nutritionals is recalling 7,000 cases of infant formula after a
labeling error resulted in at least one can of an adult nutritional
supplement being mislabeled as formula.
Company officials said the 8-ounce can labeled as ProSobee infant formula
actually contained the nutritional supplement Vanilla Sustacal.
The containers of ProSobee are sold in 4-pack fiberboard cartons. The batch
being recalled is coded 1NOV99/PROSOB/AKN13 and was shipped to stores late
last year.
Consumers with questions about the recall can call the Mead Johnson Customer
Resource Center at (888) 587-7275.
[Note from KAD: They shipped this stuff late in 1998, and now in June of
1999 they are recalling it????? Also, is there any *substantive* difference
between Vanilla Sustacal and infant formula? Could babies be harmed by
having eaten this, or no more so than having eaten infant formula??
Inquiring minds want to know.]
The second formula recall info comes from a memo sent out by the Georgia
Department of Human Resources, from Alwin K. Peterson, Director of the
Georgia WIC Program, Action Memo #99-24, dated May 6, 1999
"On April 28, 1999, a voluntary recall was initiated by Ross Products
Division (Abbott Laboratories) of Ready-to-Feed (RTF) Isomil, an
iron-fortified soy-based Infant formula. The infant formula affected is RTF
Isomil, packaged in 32 ounce metal cans with the batch number 52003RE and
52007RE. The batch numbers are printed on the bottom of the affected cans."
[Note from KAD: The memo has further info about picking up the product from
retailers, and says it was distributed in various cities in Georgia, and
says consumers can return the product for fresh cans, and gives numbers to
call for information and to report "any health problems caused by consuming
this product". Nowhere does it say WHY the product was recalled -- too many
rat hairs?? Not actually infant formula in the can?? Too much sodium??
Inquiring minds want to know!!]
Kathy Dettwyler
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 08:47:38 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: breast lump in toddler
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I would treat this as a potentially cancerous tumor, and get the toddler
seen by a breast cancer expert right away. Especially since it is
unilateral, it doesn't sound like ordinary "breast puffiness" caused by
hormones of birth or from breastfeeding. This is scary.
Kathy Dettwyler
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 10:04:00 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Calling Carolee about z's
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Dear Carolee,
My reply to your question got bounced back to me...
Lisa
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 10:13:37 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Mary Renard <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: toddler with breast lump
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This is a classic and distressingly stupid example of Jack's "sacrificing
breastfeeding on the altar of ignorance." I can't think of any
physiological explanation for how breastfeeding could possibly be related to
this. The mother needs a second opinion from a doctor who: a) knows
something about breastfeeding and b) appreciates the wide range of normal.
Although the toddler's lump should not be ignored, I am not sure there's
anything at all wrong. The fact that the lump has greatly increased in size
since breastfeeding was tapered off makes me wonder if it's an infection
which is now not being held in check nearly so well! Grrrr.
Why is it so hard for *some* doctors to say "I don't know." ?? (present
company excepted, of course! :-D )
Mary Renard, RN, BSN, IBCLC
hopeful "MD2B" for the class of 2004 (so, see, I'm not doctor-bashing ;->)
Vienna Virginia USA
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 10:21:51 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: placental fragments
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Jean:
<< I thought retained placental fragments were associated with delayed
lactogenesis and/or low supply, not oversupply. >>
can go either way.
Patricia
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 10:40:52 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Tracking Infant Formula Recalls
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The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) in the US issues recalls for food
products with problems. Every Wednesday the FDA Enforcement Report is updated
on their web page, listing the food and drug items recalled during the week.
The address is:
http://www.fda.gov/opacom/hpnews.html
It classifies the recalls as Class I, II, or III depending on how life
threatening the problem is. It also lists why the recall was issued. However,
it does not list voluntary market withdrawals that manufacturers often do
when they know of a problem. These are sometimes done for mislabeling or to
avoid the official action that the government takes.
What do other countries do in terms of recalling defective infant formula and
baby food? I would be happy to put together an international listing of all
infant formula and baby food recalls. Maybe this would help policy makers
understand that infant formula and human milk are not equivalent.
Marsha Walker, RN, IBCLC
Weston, MA
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 11:10:32 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: breast lump in nursing toddler
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The breast lump in the nursing toddler is NOT related to breastfeeding. It
is most likely a small amount of breast tissue development and is quite
common, regardless of feeding. If there are no other signs of premature
menarche (i.e., pubic hair, etc.), one could probably safely just observe the
lump for several weeks. Generally, they enlarge somewhat, remain static,
then involute spontaneously and don't reappear until the normal age of
puberty. Occasionally, a little girl will have palpable but non progressive
breast tissue that just stays until puberty when normal development occurs.
If there are other signs of premature menarche, then an evaluation of the
child's hormonal status is indicated. In either case, the breastfeeding is
not at fault and weaning is unnecessary. Sounds like the pediatrician needs
to update him/herself about normal breastfeeding duration and the physiology
of breast development.
Linda L. Shaw MD FAAP
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 11:22:05 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: plugged ducts
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Any suggestions for women who get very frequent plugged ducts - at least
once a week, in both breasts, at different places. They are not wearing
restricting clothing and not missing feedings. They have tried using different
positions, they are massaging,and can eventually get rid of them, but very
quickly get them back again in different places in the breasts. Any help
would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for your help.
Tammy Arbeter
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 11:32:05 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: "J. Rachael Hamlet" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: M-J study
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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I am very concerned about the ethics of this experimentation on
babies. What possible benefit could these babies derive from this
experiment that would justify the risks imposed on them? Does
anyone know which office of the NIH handles the ethics of human
experimentation or which other governmental agency can review
such a questionable study?
Rachael Hamlet
Breastfeeding Busybody
On 6 Jun 99, at 8:03, [log in to unmask] wrote:
<forwarded by Katie:>
> We have been contacted by researchers at the Center for Human
> Nutrition, University of Colorado Health Sciences Center,
> concerning an infant nutrition study they are conducting. They
> would like to ask you and your child to be a part of their study.
> They are interested in looking at the nutrition of infants to learn
> more about their nutritional requirements. An infant's eating habits
> affect physical and developmental growth as well as overall health.
>
> This study is for male babies who are exclusively breast-fed for
> the first three months. Formula will be introduced during the third
> month - three to four ounces twice a day. The study is looking at
> zinc absorption in babies supplemented with either high or low iron
> formula.
>
> For your participation you will be provided formula for the three
> weeks of the study, the use of an electric breast pump, and $400.00
> for the successful completion of the study. The study is conducted
> at home.
>
> We have reviewed the credentials of the researchers and found them to be
> in good order. They have been doing similar research for over two decades
> in the Denver-Metropolitan area. This project is being sponsored by Mead
> Johnson and has been reviewed and approved by the Colorado Multiple
> Institutional Review Board of the University of Colorado Health Sciences
> Center.
>
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 09:55:44 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Diane Wiessinger <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: adult oral thrush
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> I also have had several mothers with nipple/breast yeast who also
had oral thrush.
I haven't seen any moms who would admit to it. But one mom with
persistent nipple thrush that finally cleared when she began taking
nystatin capsules herself commented that "the funny taste at the back
of my mouth" disappeared after she'd been on the capsules a while. We
guessed that the reinfecting source for her nipples had been her own
mouth.
Another mom uses inhalants to control asthma, which she said makes her
a prime candidate for yeast infections. She had "funny designs" along
the sides of her tongue, which I couldn't really see - not white, she
said, but more as if her teeth had left marks on her tongue. But she
was also prone to whitened cracks at the corners of her mouth. All of
that disappeared with diflucan.
Diane Wiessinger, MS, IBCLC, LLLL Ithaca, NY
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 10:25:29 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Diane Wiessinger <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: lump in 18 month breast
Comments: cc: [log in to unmask]
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>I am working with a mother who is currently nursing an almost 18 month old.
>About 3 weeks ago, she noticed a hard lump in her daughter's right breast.
>After conferring with the pedi, it was suggested that this was due to
>breastfeeding...
My very first thought was of Kathy Dettwyler's work, which puts our
biologically appropriate "weaning window" at from 2 1/2 to 7 years.
This baby is only halfway to the lower edge of the window. Once we
redefine "extended breastfeeding" to mean children still nursing past
the age of 7 years, not children nursing past a year, we'll have a
better perspective about the utter normalcy of 18 month old nurslings.
Diane Wiessinger, MS, IBCLC Ithaca, NY
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 09:46:43 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: janaken <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ILCA
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I am tired of hearing this discussion dragging on!
THE CO: MOTHERS ARE DOING A WONDERFUL JOB WITH LACTNET AND IF THEY DON'T
WANT ILCA DISCUSSED, THEN GET OVER IT!!
Jan Aken RN IBCLC
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 09:54:13 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Monique Schaefers <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: bfing after 4 beers
Comments: cc: [log in to unmask]
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i am sharing this information as a former bartender.
12 ounces of beer = 4 ounces of wine = 1 ounce of hard liquor
usually a drink or cocktail is only made with 1 ounce of hard liquor at
a time. each of these measurements is what one would consider as one
drink.
a person who weighs 150 pounds with normal metabolism is expected to
process one drink in one hour. men tend to process faster due to
usually higher metabolism and higher weight than women. as a bartender
if i wanted to protect myself from the liability of serving alcohol to
adults, i would be careful to not serve more than a drink per hour per
person.
after four hours last night i would assume this mom should be bfing her
child again.
--
Monique
Noah Reilly Schaefers 6/18/97
[log in to unmask]
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 13:39:49 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: "Yaffa Stark, MA, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: ILCA
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I registered for the ILCA conference taking advantage of the "early,early
bird" price of $265.00. I now find that I will be unable to attend. If one
of you out there is interested in buying my registration (which is ok with
ILCA - I checked), please contact me by e-mail, phone (323)937-7556, or fax
(323)935-4141.
Thanks, Yaffa Stark
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 12:04:58 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: "M. O'Hara-Hawn" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [lactivist] M-J study
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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A key ethical issue would be informed consent, whether the parents get
evidence-based, forthright information about the potential risks of
exogenously-motivated supplementing (i.e. premature weaning--before the
recommended duration from the AAP, allergies / intolerance...). Ask UC's
IRB to see the consent forms, which would have to have been approved by
the UC's IRB (Institutional review board). I think the IRB would give you
this info, and would take seriously any well-reasoned and evidence-based
concern. You could call the IRB and ask how to best express your concern.
At a minimum, they can make the investigators make the consent forms
explicit about the risks. Despite Duke's problems, most IRBs are
extraordinarily careful about protecting patients from potential harm,
expecially children, who can't ensure their own protection.
*********************************************************************
MaryAnn O'Hara, MD, MSt
Robert Wood Johnson Clinical Scholars Program
University of Washington
1959 NE Pacific, Rm H-220 Health Sciences Center, Box 357183
Seattle, WA 98195-7183
(office) # 206-616-8724
(home office) 206-329-6870
(fax) 206-685-2473
e-mail: [log in to unmask]
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On Sun, 6 Jun 1999, J. Rachael Hamlet wrote:
> From: "J. Rachael Hamlet" <[log in to unmask]>
>
> I am very concerned about the ethics of this experimentation on
> babies. What possible benefit could these babies derive from this
> experiment that would justify the risks imposed on them? Does
> anyone know which office of the NIH handles the ethics of human
> experimentation or which other governmental agency can review
> such a questionable study?
>
> Rachael Hamlet
> Breastfeeding Busybody
>
> On 6 Jun 99, at 8:03, [log in to unmask] wrote:
> <forwarded by Katie:>
>
> > We have been contacted by researchers at the Center for Human
> > Nutrition, University of Colorado Health Sciences Center,
> > concerning an infant nutrition study they are conducting. They
> > would like to ask you and your child to be a part of their study.
> > They are interested in looking at the nutrition of infants to learn
> > more about their nutritional requirements. An infant's eating habits
> > affect physical and developmental growth as well as overall health.
> >
> > This study is for male babies who are exclusively breast-fed for
> > the first three months. Formula will be introduced during the third
> > month - three to four ounces twice a day. The study is looking at
> > zinc absorption in babies supplemented with either high or low iron
> > formula.
> >
> > For your participation you will be provided formula for the three
> > weeks of the study, the use of an electric breast pump, and $400.00
> > for the successful completion of the study. The study is conducted
> > at home.
> >
> > We have reviewed the credentials of the researchers and found them to be
> > in good order. They have been doing similar research for over two decades
> > in the Denver-Metropolitan area. This project is being sponsored by Mead
> > Johnson and has been reviewed and approved by the Colorado Multiple
> > Institutional Review Board of the University of Colorado Health Sciences
> > Center.
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Where do some of the Internet's largest email lists reside?
> http://www.onelist.com
> At ONElist - the most scalable and reliable service on the Internet.
>
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 14:05:14 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Karen Zeretzke <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: adult oral thrush
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Diane mentioned a mother w/yeast who was using an inhaler for asthma. In
my yeast-prevalent part of the world, these inhalers have been found to be
the source of reinfection...... :-p Cleaning well with a 10% bleach
solution (applied with a spray bottle to reach all the cracks and crevices)
has solved the problem.
Karen Zeretzke, MEd, IBCLC
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
[log in to unmask]
http://www.prairienet.org/laleche/bfcost.html
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 20:07:46 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Anna Hayward <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Oral thrush in adults
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Hi All,
I've had it and it's a common side-effect from the use of high-dose
steroidal metered dose inhalers (MDIs) in asthma, such as Becloforte. I
did everything recommended to me to avoid the oral thrush, but was
plagued by it until I tried a different, more modern asthma inhaler
(Flixotide) and stopped all oral steroids and antibiotics (I was on huge
doses due to an unrelated kidney problem). I tried oral nystatin, but
other than the lozengers tasting quite pleasant and soothing it, they
didn't cure the problem.
A few years later, I read about a special diet to get rid of yeast
infections, on this very list, and that fixed up the infection I was
actually suffering at the time and prevented a recurrence. I checked it
out with my doctor and dietitian and felt quite annoyed that I hadn't
been advised to follow it when I had had the problem. It was a diet
involving cutting out simple sugars and all fermented products: that
included fruit juice, ordinary bread (I ate soda bread), soy sauce,
alcoholic drinks, vinegar etc. The idea is apparently to make the body
as unfavourable to the yeast infection as possible.
I regularly share this information on the asthma groups because it is
such a common problem in asthmatics of all ages. I don't suppose this
mother you are working with is asthmatic and on a steroidal MDI?
Oh, and the symptoms were an incredibly sore mouth, such that I couldn't
eat (no wonder babies have feeding problems with oral thrush) and
talking became painful. I had a yellowish-white coating on my tongue and
inside my mouth and throat, which was red at the edges and bled at it's
worst point. Even breathing hurt.
Later on, my dentist said my teeth were all coated in a nasty, sticky
layer that ordinary brushing just couldn't remove. He told me that that
was a symptom of chronic oral candiasis and it made me wonder what harm
it might do to these babies mouths if left untreated.
Fortunately, I was not a nursing mother at the time, but I thought
sharing my personal experience might help someone.
--
Anna H.
mailto: [log in to unmask]
http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna/
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 15:34:59 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Pam Wiggins <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Recalled formula
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Kathy Dettwyler says:
"...Nowhere does it say WHY the product was recalled -- too many
rat hairs?? Not actually infant formula in the can?? Too much sodium??
Enquiring minds want to know!!"
Indeed, if my child had been drinking this stuff, I would DEMAND to know
why it was being recalled. Is there any way we can find out now?
Babies are entitled to breastmilk, not some chemical formula!
Pam Wiggins, IBCLC, Franklin VA
http://www.lapub.com
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 16:15:04 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Chonyi Glassman, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 6 Jun 1999 - Special issue (#1999-17)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 99-06-06 15:13:39 EDT, you write:
<< The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) in the US issues recalls for food
products with problems. Every Wednesday the FDA Enforcement Report is updated
on their web page, listing the food and drug items recalled during the week.
The address is:
http://www.fda.gov/opacom/hpnews.html
It classifies the recalls as Class I, II, or III depending on how life
threatening the problem is. It also lists why the recall was issued. However,
it does not list voluntary market withdrawals that manufacturers often do
when they know of a problem. These are sometimes done for mislabeling or to
avoid the official action that the government takes. >>
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 15:38:52 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Barbara Wilson-Clay <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: complicated case
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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Dear Lu,
I appreciate your added info on your knowledge of this case. I was not
aware you had worked with this mother. She did mention working with my old
friend, Lila Allman, whose skills I have ample respect for. I do feel
somewhat puzzled that you feel defensive about this case. I've never
suggested the case was mismanaged -- just complex. In fact, the early
initiation of pumping, and all the advice to do skin-to-skin were quite
appropriate. None of the interventions with regard to the deep suctioning
were inappropriate -- all were clearly needed to get the baby out of danger.
But like all interventions, they create cascades of events that then have to
be tended to. Many issues such as the broken clavicle or un-dx heart
defects (for example) aren't always discovered immed. That doesn't mean
anyone was negligent. There is
only so much that can be done in a hospt. stay. But just because it was
missed doesn't mean it didn't hurt. The baby is still clearly in pain
when touched, so much so the mother holds her gingerly and is cautious about
placing her in some positions.
What interests me is the potential for learning this complex case gives
other LCs. That is why I described it. Not, certainly, to embarrass
anyone. I will post this publically to make sure that there is no one else
who thinks my desire to share this is anything but an attempt to do what
Lactnet is intended to foster -- advance clinical skills by sharing ideas
about cases.
Barbara Wilson-Clay, BSEd, IBCLC
Austin Lactation Associates, Austin, Texas
http://www.jump.net/~bwc/lactnews.html
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 16:48:50 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: m-j study
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anyone else who has good ideas on how to approach this m-j study, please post
or email me privately. since this is in my own backyard, i feel compelled to
do something about it. but i want to start in with a good plan, not just call
up all p***** off. which of course i am, or sickened rather, but since they
are carrying out the same "type" of study all the time in the hospitals (we
just fed your baby, he/she was hungry) all the time, it's not a surprise.
carol brussel IBCLC
laura nevada lactation
denver colorado
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 16:53:10 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: glenn <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 6 Jun 1999 - Special issue (#1999-17)
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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Tammy asked about recurrent plugged ducts.
Tammy:
I have the best success with lecithin supplements. You can get them
from any GNC store in the U.S., as well as many drug stores. I just
urge the mom to take the dosage on the label, and have never yet had a
mom with this problem get them after starting lecithin!
Teresa G. in NC
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 13:56:44 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: JohannaBerger DavidDormont <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: ARRGGHHH!!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Just saw an ad for Gerber cereal. It states, "Gerber
Cereal with all the ingredients of formula."
ARRRGGHHHH!!!!
Johanna Berger, LSW
Breastfeeding Counselor
Bala Cynwyd, PA
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 17:15:37 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: complicated case
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Hi fellow Lactnuts, I'm back....from my 10 day trip south. Enjoyed seeing
son's new home in SC and the bottlefed grandchildren. They are cute as
buttons anyway. (or in spite of...) I had read this case in archives and
thought it was a good learning situation as presented. Like BWC, I'm sorry
some took it negatively. I thought it was exactly what Lactnet is intended
to foster - advancing our clinical skills. And maybe that includes what
could have been done differently, sooner or whatever.
> What interests me is the potential for learning this complex case gives
> other LCs. That is why I described it. Not, certainly, to embarrass
> anyone. I will post this publically to make sure that there is no one
else
> who thinks my desire to share this is anything but an attempt to do what
> Lactnet is intended to foster -- advance clinical skills by sharing ideas
> about cases.
Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 17:28:37 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: adult oral thrush
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All of the inhaled oral steroids advise rinsing the mouth after use to try
and head off oral thrush. As they become more commonly used for asthma in
various ages we will see more thrush, and just in time for meds not to be
working very well on thrush! "Fixing" one problem is causing others.
Seems to be one of the ways medicine lurches "forward." Sincerely, Pat in
SNJ
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 17:31:23 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [lactivist] M-J study
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The problem is that the average IRB (without an LC on their board) would
not know the significance of giving formula to a 3 mo old BF baby boy.
They would see it as a non issue. Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 21:45:14 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Anna Hayward <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: oops! Wrong baby - happened to me.
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Esther and others,
thank you for sharing your stories. The obvious pain with which people
are sharing WRT this issue (from both the nurse and mother's POV) adds
weight to my conviction that mothers and their new babies should be
considered a dyad - maybe they should cut the umbilical cord when the
child can ask for it? :-^
>Maybe that would work better to
>counter " You are tired dear, you need your rest!"
From the sample of this list, it seems we should be replacing that with
"You are tired dear, here, cuddle your baby and have a rest!"
--
Anna H.
mailto: [log in to unmask]
http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna/
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 21:50:43 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Anna Hayward <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Alcohol
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Heather,
>If you really want to know my opinion - and that's all it is! - well, I
>think it is crazy to pump and dump in these circumstances. The risks to her
>baby, and to her breastfeeding, far outweigh the negligible risks of the
>beers. The archives will reveal that not everyone agrees with this.
I totally agree (as a fellow Brit) but would like to add, as if anyone
here needed a reminded, that ABM is not risk-free. That baby's gut flora
will be changed for weeks after that bottle, and psychologically, I
wonder if the mother, having "given in" this once to using ABM to get
herself out of a hole may be tempted to use it again, and again. I fear
early weaning.
Breastfeeding and altars or ignorance come to mind.
--
Anna H.
mailto: [log in to unmask]
http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna/
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 23:14:09 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Anna Hayward <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: adult oral thrush
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Hi,
>Diane mentioned a mother w/yeast who was using an inhaler for asthma. In
>my yeast-prevalent part of the world, these inhalers have been found to be
>the source of reinfection...... :-p Cleaning well with a 10% bleach
>solution (applied with a spray bottle to reach all the cracks and crevices)
>has solved the problem.
Or simply place all inhalers, removable nebulizer parts and spacers in
the dish washer, on the normal cycle! :-) (if you have a dishwasher,
ofcourse).
--
Anna H.
mailto: [log in to unmask]
http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna/
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 21:05:30 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Carolee, again
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My apologies to all Lactfolks.
Dear Carolee, please call me at (270) 781-7972.
Thanks,
Lisa
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 21:48:40 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: plugged ducts
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Tammy:
have mom increase salt intake.
Patricia
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 20:15:14 PDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: laurie wheeler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Fwd: letter re "A Bronx Tale"
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>Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 21:59:41 -0500
>
>Ms. Pollitt:
>
>I liked your piece on the Tabitha Walrond trial [A Bronx Tale, The Nation,
>June 14]. You really hit the nail on the head when you wrote of all the
>culpable parties who were not also prosecuted. You are so right about
>women>needing information and ongoing support for breastfeeding to succeed.
> >This case had what we in the business call "red flags" waving all
>over,>alerting us to the high probability of lactation failure and the need
>to>be following this family closely and supplementing the baby with
>other>milk.
>
>However, I must disagree with your opinion that "advocates of breast
>feeding have done a good job of making women feel guilty..." Most of
>us>only see moms or receive phone calls from moms who have expressed a
>desire to breastfeed, and ask for our help or want more information.
>My>co-workers and I go out of our way to be non-judgemental and to
>give>factual, scientific information. After all, this is what converted
>many>of us. We accept that many moms want to breastfeed for 6 weeks,
>even>though we would love for them to continue for 6 months. Many
>moms>breastfeed subsequent children longer and themselves become
>breastfeeding advocates.
>
>Thanks for writing an article that just might shake up the status quo.
>
>Laurie Wheeler, RN, MN, IBCLC
>Hospital lactation consultant
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 22:09:11 -0800
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: "Kathleen G. Auerbach" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Word use
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For some time now, I have been easing out of major activity with lactation
(not entirely successfully, I might add!).
One way of getting away was increasing my musical activities. Tonight I
just returned from the final spring performance of the Whatcom Chorale, and
110+ voice group in which I sing first alto. We concentrated on Handel for
our spring performance and di the four coronation anthems as well as the
Foundling Hospital Anthem--to lots of applause, I am happy to report.
The lyrics of one of the coronation pieces may interest you all. It
generate a great deal of discussion among the different sections, to which
I added an explanation re: nurturance and what it means worldwide.
Here are the lyrics (imagine the basso's and tenors singing these words as
well as the sopranos and altos).
My heart is inditing
Kings' daughters
Upon thy right hand
Kings shall be thy nursing fathers (and queens thy nursing mothers)...
...with variations on these words but the theme being of nursing men as
well as women
I can't seem to escape references to nursing, be they referable to
breastfeeding or not!
Enjoy the summer (or winter!), everyone!
mailto:[log in to unmask]
"We are all faced with a series of great opportunities brilliantly
disguised as impossible situations."
Kathleen G. Auerbach,PhD, IBCLC (Ferndale, WA USA) [log in to unmask]
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 22:29:15 GMT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Magda Sachs <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: BfN The Breastfeeding Network
Subject: blocked ducts
>They have tried using different
positions, they are massaging,and can eventually get rid of them,<
I do not know what has been involved in trying different positions, but, in my
expereince, the position of the baby relative to the mother is important in that
it can facilitate the baby taking a more effective mouthful of breast tissue.
Merely moving the breastfeeding dyad around may not achieve what is needed.
Sometimes babies are on so that they look and feel on 'right', but improving the
mother-baby contact to '101%' can help.
I mention this because, after nearly a year on Lactnet, I am mildly puzzled by
how seldom positioning is mentioned. In my practical work with women it is one
of the most common areas which need attention and in discussions with my
colleagues in the UK, it is something we discuss a lot. Both because we still
see women coming home from hospital without having had the reasons for certain
positional techniques explained to them (they know to turn the baby toward them,
but don't know why, or that this includes removing the little arm which has
crept between the baby and theeir body), and, because , in my experience it is
always tempting to delve for interesting explanations and its hard to be really
scrupulous if positioning seems ok.
One thing I find really good to remember is that one can have thrush, or
self-doubt or bacterial infections, and these need to be addressed by the
breastfeeding worker, but that does not mean that positioning/attachment is not
also an element of what is happening.
I also find that women sometimes take some time to really believe that
differences in the way they hold the baby and offer the breast can make such a
radical difference to a problem they feel is located in another arena (e.g.
mastitis -- needs antibiotics, thrush -- needs an antifungal, not enough milk --
needs dietary changes or baby rice). Often it can take several contacts and
some repetition of the theory behind what I am doing to get the whole thing to
gel.
What do you find?
Magda Sachs
Breastfeeding Supporter, BfN, UK
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 00:25:17 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Jones Family <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Grainy milk residue and plugged ducts
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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An LC I know reported a case where a mom had severe plugged ducts
leading to low milk supply, mastitis and thrush. She had finally been
able to sit in the bathtub and express many grainy particles, after
which she was able to pump much more than before (in too much pain to
breastfeed). She gave a history of having taken calcium antacid tablets
(a bottle a week) for morning sickness during pregnancy. After giving
birth, she had begun drinking milk by the gallon.
The LC theorized that the calcium had caused plugged ducts in the same
way it is seen in kidney stones. She theorized that mom had felt the
need for so much milk because her body had become accustomed to high
calcium levels during pregnancy.
Bonnie
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 00:24:51 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Harold + Deb <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: preemie/pumping/milk dwindling
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Help! I have a teenage mother of a 35 weeker that has been getting EBM
x 2 weeks. Supply is dropping suddenly however, reportedly half the
volume ( 1 bottle rather than previous 2) per pumping session. I have
not seen her yet, I spoke to on the phone after Public Health referred
her to me. ( I should explain that I am not a trained LC - I am a lay
helper and organized a BF support group in my community - an isolated
reservation in northern Canada. My husband is the local physician and
supportive but neither of us are experienced with a serious problem like
this).
I advised her tonight to ensure that babe is with her when pumping, and
to try getting him on when he is awake but not starving. OK so far? I
did my best to reassure her that he will be able to eat in the coming
weeks and that she will be able to produce enough milk, but what steps
do we take to get him nursing? Any advice on how to assess if he's
ready etc is MUCH appreciated. I know I am not qualified, but I am all
they've got up here! Thanks in advance, Debra Budden Aiyansh BC
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 09:52:29 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: preemie/pumping/milk dwindling
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>Help! I have a teenage mother of a 35 weeker that has been getting EBM
>x 2 weeks.
Deb - is this baby basically okay , and gaining weight appropriately? Is
the baby at home or in hospital? How many times is she pumping? Is she
holding the baby a lot, so she can respond to cues *before* the baby starts
to fuss or cry, and help him take the breast? What has prevented him from
breastfeeding so far - just the fact he was pre-term? Was he given the
chance to come to the breast even without feeding from the start?
>I advised her tonight to ensure that babe is with her when pumping, and
>to try getting him on when he is awake but not starving. OK so far?
Yep - I would say so!
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 09:57:57 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Anna Hayward <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: adult oral thrush
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Pat,
>All of the inhaled oral steroids advise rinsing the mouth after use to try
>and head off oral thrush.
Yes, and every asthmatic with oral thrush that I know of, took this
advice :-^ They also advise using a spacer with an MDI, to dilute the
drug and ensure most of it gets into your lungs (studies show that 80%
of patients are physically incapable of using the MDI "correctly" and
swallow most of the drug).
> As they become more commonly used for asthma in
>various ages we will see more thrush, and just in time for meds not to be
>working very well on thrush! "Fixing" one problem is causing others.
I take your point, except asthma can be fatal and I've yet to hear of a
patient dying or oral thrush :-)
>Seems to be one of the ways medicine lurches "forward."
I've had success with tea-tree essential oil in the past. I wonder if
anyone's considered gargling with tea-tree
--
Anna H.
mailto: [log in to unmask]
http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna/
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 06:55:11 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: blocked ducts/positioning
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Dear Magda, I agree with so much of what you said. The look that comes
over a woman's face as baby nurses without causing pain, after a simple
position adjustment, is very special. The disbelief "it doesn't hurt
anymore", the delight, it is all so rewarding.
Maybe positioning isn't mentioned often because it is so basic that we
assume positioning and latch have been addressed. That is part of being
advanced practice/expert, cut to the chase. So when experts write other
experts with questions, all the basics have been done and we're still
seeing a problem.
Re: positioning - personal experience with multiple plugged ducts (yeast
and oversupply 30 years ago - hindsight is 100% folks)
I could not nurse lying down. Invariably the outer quadrant that was down
(hope you get the orientation) wouldn't drain adequately and boom I had a
plugged duct the next am. Today I would know to fix the yeast and
oversupply AND deal with tight bras and positioning. Sincerely, Pat in
SNJ
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 07:01:42 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: preemie/pumping/milk dwindling
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Dear Deb, is there a major stressor in mom's life? Did baby just come
home? Or is coming home and she's scared? or lack of support? I've found
milk supply for premies is frequently affected by stress, also fatigue,
diet(lack of food & fluids), and decrease in pumping frequency or time at
pump. These are some questions to evaluate. Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 07:36:03 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: gima <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: adult oral thrush
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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]>I haven't seen any moms who would admit to it.
One of my clients, who was struggling to resolve her and her baby's yeast problem, called to say that she was getting a cold--her throat was sore. I suggested that she look at her tongue. As I held the phone, she looked, and yelled, "YIKES!! It's solid white from half way, on back!"
She was using Gentian Violet for her nipples and baby's mouth, so she began to use it for herself. Within an hour after swishing with GV in a little water, her throat was better. I suggested that, once a day, she could dip the swab into the GV and stir it into a little water, swish, gargle, then swallow. She did this for several days and felt that it was a good adjunct to her other anti-fungal measures.
Since that case, I ask client about their oral health--soreness, bad breath, bad taste, etc. Sometimes I will ask if they'd like for me to check their tongues. There is usually not a visible problem, but in, at least, 20% of the cases there is.
Most mothers of newborns are not reflecting on their bodies regarding subtle discomforts. Everything seems "off" and one more thing just seems a part of the whole confusion. They are certainly not checking their throats for white globs, or wondering why there is a strange taste in their mouths. If they did notice it, they would probably conclude that it is "hormonal" and normal.
Pat Gima, IBCLC
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
<color><param>0000,0000,ffff</param>mailto:[log in to unmask]</color>
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 10:18:00 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Recalled formula
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According to the national radio news I heard, the formula was recalled
because the shipment contained adult nutritional supplement product that was
mislabled as formula. You can imagine the difficulties a little 6 week old
sweetie pie could get into if s/he drank that in a bottle!....VNJ
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 07:22:41 PDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: laurie wheeler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: bf messages
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Just to let you all know that a mother who had bf x 7 mos told me that she
was shown a LLL video during pg. The video showed a toddler moving onto
solid food and said the mother mourned the loss of the special, close
relationship/. Even tho she enjoyed nsg, this mom felt that the video
conveyed the message that "w/o your milk, you're nothing" and that mothers
who bottlefeed and fathers will never be as close. BTW, she was not bashing
LLL or bf.
I mention this to ya'll only as FOOD FOR THOUGHT. Just so we are thinking
about the messages we send. And maybe showing toddler nursing (while normal
for us) is a "culture shock" to these moms. After all it is normal w/i our
lactnet culture but not in the greater culture.
Laurie Wheeler, RN, MN, IBCLC - not at all shocked by older nurslings - I am
nursing one almost 5!
Violet Louisiana, USA
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 09:43:08 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Stearns, Crystal" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: FW: oral thrush in adults?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
My letter to Cathy, but thought I would share it with ya'll.
I was not sick nor had I been ill.
Crystal Stearns RNC, MS, IBCLC
Mercy Memorial Health Center
Ardmore, OK 73401
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stearns, Crystal
> Sent: Friday, June 04, 1999 5:28 PM
> To: 'Cathy Bargar'
> Subject: RE: oral thrush in adults?
>
> Hi,
> I though I would respond to this, since during the winter I had oral
> thrush (had a positive oral yeast culture). Like you the only patients I
> had ever worked with that had oral yeast were AIDS patients. I nearly
> fell off the exam table when the doctor informed me. I immediately had
> all kinds of lab test as well as an AIDS test and all were find. I had no
> other symptoms, except my husband had also had a very sore angry looking
> mouth and throat two weeks before (we say two different doctors). My
> husband suffers from severe jock itch and athletes foot. My doctor was
> unable to give me a good reason why two healthy, not immune suppressed
> adults would get oral yeast. Had I not washed my hands well after working
> with a baby with yeast, had my husband transferred yeast to his mouth,
> from another part of his body,and then to me. We will never know, but
> healthy adults can also get oral yeast.
>
> Crystal Stearns RNC, MS, IBCLC
> Mercy Memorial Health Center
> Ardmore, OK 73401
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cathy Bargar [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Friday, June 04, 1999 2:47 PM
> Subject: oral thrush in adults?
>
> I'd put my money on strep throat or a viral infection, esp. if she's had
> any
> fever with the sore throat. Yes, adults can have yeast infection in the
> throat - but the only situations where I've encountered it is with cancer
> patients on chemotherapy, or AIDS patients. Immunosuppression creates the
> necessary conditions - otherwise, it's kept in check by the body's normal
> defenses. When I've looked in the throats of these patients (I used to
> work
> for an oncologist, and on the hospital unit where chemo was administered &
> CA pts. were cared for), most commonly what I've seen is an angry red
> throat, more like what you see on baby's bottoms when they have thrush
> that
> causes diaper-rash. In these pts., it seems to be absolutely excruciating,
> often the most painful and miserable aspect of their illness, often making
> it impossible for them to take anything by mouth - causes huge problems
> with
> their nutritional status. The treatment? Same as for babies (oral Nystatin
> "swish & swallow"), often combined with an oral "numbing" medication, like
> a
> 'caine or even cocaine spray.
>
> But I've never seen it in any other kind of adult - one of the symptoms of
> Chronic Fatigue Syndrome is chronic or long-term sore throat that resists
> treatment, and CFS is linked to immunosupression, so...But unless there's
> other stuff going on with this woman's overall health, I'd bet on strep or
> virus!
>
> Cathy Bargar, RN, IBCLC Ithaca NY
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 10:49:55 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: lecithin
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lecithin is made from soy oil, so i always mention this to mothers when i
recommend it, in case a mother is sensitive to or allergic to soy products
(it can cause a problem).
carol brussel IBCLC
laura nevada lactation
denver colorado
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 09:54:39 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kerry and Jack <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: immunities in BM destroyed by supplementation
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Hello, everyone! My name is Kerry Luskey and I'm new to the l*st. My =
question for the group is - I've recently read an article by Dr. George =
Wootan, who is a Family Practitioner and Medical Associate for LLL. In =
this article, he states that of the 37 known immunities in breastmilk, =
17 of these are destroyed, never to be replaced again, as soon as =
ANYTHING other than breastmilk is introduced, even a bottle of water. =
Apparently it has something to do with the introduction of e. coli =
bacteria. This article was originally published in "Mother Earth News" =
magazine, but the version I read is at the following URL:
http://www.naturalchild.com/guest/george_wootan.html
There are no references given in the article. I emailed Dr. Wootan over =
a month ago, asking him for any references or studies, and I have not =
heard from him yet. NOBODY I know has heard of this before, and I guess =
I would like to get some corroboration before I go repeating this =
information to mothers who are thinking of supplementing or starting =
solids. Anyone have any information on this?
Thanks!
Kerry Luskey
Minneapolis, MN
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 11:05:49 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Nice, Frank" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Mother's milk a food of choice/The Washington Times/Sunday,
June 6, 1999
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This was an article (front page of Washington Times "Family Times" section that
consisted of almost two pages by Karen Goldberg Goff.
Almost half-page color picture of mother (Jennifer Crump, mother of two from
Reston, VA) breast-feeding (editor used the "hyphen" throughout the article) her
infant, Elizabeth, on a public park bench.
The article was fairly balance between pro and nonpro breastfeeding positions.
Bylines stated: BREAST-FEEDING: "I went into it committed for six months. But
is was going well, so I kept at it. It can be inconvenient at times, but
sometimes it is more convenient..." and BREAST-FEEDING: "Epidemiological
research shows that human milk provides advantages with regard to growth,
general health and development, while significantly decreasing risk for ...
disease," and "Studies suggest a relationship between breast-feeding and higher
IQs," and "There is widespread recognition...that breast-feeding is the best
way. But moms need to know there are good substitutes."
The formula advocates were Peggy Robin, author of Bottlefeeding Without Guilt: A
Reassuring Guide for Loving Parents, and Roland Tuley, spokesman for Enfamil
("There is widespread recognition among the experts that breast-feeding is the
best way, but moms need to know there are good substitutes, We are not equal to
breast milk, and in our lifetime we won't be. Our aim is never to compete with
breast milk (my own observation: Really!!!). What we are trying to offer is
when it is time to supplement, we would obviously rather have you use our
formula."
The article also contained a side article on workplace breastfeeding programs,
including the NIH program.
Also, a "More Info:" side article with books: The Womanly Art of Breast-feeding;
Bottlefeeding Without Guilt, A Reassuring Guide for Loving Parents; (interesting
that bottlefeeding has no hyphen in it); The Complete Book of Breast-feeding;
Breastfeeding: A Holistic Handbook; Breastfeeding and the Working Mother;
Breastfeeding and the Adopted Baby; Eat Well, Lose Weight While Breastfeeding;
and Nursing Mother's Companion.
It also listed contacts for Laleche League and the American Academy of
Pediatrics and web sites, The Bright Lactation Resource Center and for iVillage
(I do not know what this web site is) and Parenting Magazine.
Frank J. Nice, DPA, CPHP
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 11:11:22 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Looking for Dr. Jay Gordon
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Can anyone quickly e-mail me contact info for pediatrician Jay Gordon?
Thanks--
Katie Allison Granju
Knoxville, TN
http://www.attachmentparent.com/
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 16:20:04 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: immunities in BM destroyed by supplementation
In-Reply-To: <001501beb0f5$ac25ff40$e9874b0c@default>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>Hello, everyone! My name is Kerry Luskey and I'm new to the l*st. My
>question for the group is - I've recently read an article by Dr. George
>Wootan, who is a Family Practitioner and Medical Associate for LLL. In
>this article, he states that of the 37 known immunities in breastmilk, 17
>of these are destroyed, never to be replaced again, as soon as ANYTHING
>other than breastmilk is introduced, even a bottle of water. Apparently it
>has something to do with the introduction of e. coli bacteria. This
>article was originally published in "Mother Earth News" magazine, but the
>version I read is at the following URL:
>
>http://www.naturalchild.com/guest/george_wootan.html
>
I am sure Dr Wootan is a nice guy and he is certainly in favour of
breastfeeding - but even a quick read of his article reveals some errors.
For example, it is *not* true that a bf mother needs 3500 calories a day,
and it *not* true that she should restrict time at the breast in the early
days to avoid nipple soreness, and it is *not* true that exposing nipples
to the air in pregnancy is beneficial....
I too would like a reference for his statement about 17 known immunities
being destroyed - I mean, of course it could be true, but references to the
study that showed it would be good.
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 16:54:41 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Infantrini
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Anyone know what this is?
I have just seen an ad for it in the UK nursing press.
It's from formula manufactuers Nutricia, and it calims to be a
'prescribably high energy feed' for babies from birth to 12 months,
'specifically formulated to meet the nutritional needs of infants with FTT'
IT is ready to use, and has, says the text, a high percentage of energy
from protein.
But nothing in the ad says what it is. No ingredients are listed at all -
not one!
I suspect it is soya-based, but only because the logo is a smiling
bean-shaped face.
Recently, soya has had hugely bad press in the UK because of
phytooestrogens, so the lack of ingredients listed may be no accident.
It is not subject to EU marketing restrictions relating to formula as is a
'food for special medical purposes'.
Anyone know it?
Heather welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 09:42:56 -0700
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From: "Johnson, Martha (PHMG)" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: our tidy world, and bathing
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One more post on the topic of baby baths:
Step 4 of UNICEF's Baby Friendly Hospital Initiative states: Help Mothers
initiate breastfeeding within one hour of birth (in all other nations than
the US, it's 30 minutes; the time parameter here is 60 minutes, I am not
sure why--and this, BTW, was the only change made in the TEn Steps for the
US).
The fine print about this step reads:
"All mothers should be given their infant to hold with skin-to-skin contact
within 30minutes of birth and for about half an hour unless medically
contraindicated, and offered help by a staff member to initiate
breastfeeding when the baby seems ready (at least within one hour of birth).
Infant care procedures (e.g., eye care, cord care, bathing,* and any other
procedures requiring separation of mother and baby should be delayed until
after this initial period of skin-to-skin contact unless medically
contraindicated, and should be conducted whenever feasible at the mother's
bedside." *(italics mine)
At the facility where I work (designated Baby Friendly in August 97), we
genreally offer a bath at around 2 hours, but don't insist on one. If the
parents decline a bath for their baby, we wear gloves whenever we need to
touch the baby. When we do give baths (which most parents want), we have a
plain old plastic tub that we put about 2-3 inches of water in, and place
right on the mom's bed. Dads and older sibs often help with the bath.
If anyone wants refs that support Step 4, start by checking the bib in the
WONDERFUL article from BIRTH 23:3 September 1996, Ten Steps to Successful
Breastfeeding: A Summary of the Rationale and Scientific Evidence, by Saadeh
and Akre. UNICEF has just published a great new book, Evidence for the ten
Steps to Successful Breastfeeding. It costs US $18 and can be ordered from
Baby Friendly USA.
Finally, congratulations are in order for all Oregon women, and all Oregon
breastfeeding advocates! SB 744, which gives women the right to breastfeed
their children in public, passed the Oregon House recently, 57-1, having
already passed the Senate UNANIMOUSLY!! I am so thrilled and proud to have
been part of the process.
Martha Johnson RN IBCLC
Eugene, Oregon (where it is so cold I turned my heat back on this AM)
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 12:54:58 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Nancy Holtzman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Women's Health reports.
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Hi, All,
I am on a mailing list for Women's Health research and reports. This
week's postings included several studies I thought you might be interested
in, since we were recently speaking about breast cancer issues and HIV.
NancyH
Nancy Holtzman RN BSN
Great Beginnings New Mothers Groups
Boston MA
EXPERT COMMENTARY - HIV VIRAL LOAD
Andrew N. Phillips, PhD, reviews the evidence of differences in HIV RNA
levels between women and men, and discusses the implications for treatment
guidelines.
Medscape HIV/AIDS 5(3), 1999
http://womenshealth.medscape.com/4209.rhtml
PREGNANCY AFTER BREAST CANCER DOES NOT ADVERSELY AFFECT SURVIVAL
Women who become pregnant after being diagnosed with stage I or stage II
invasive breast cancer do not increase their mortality risk.
http://womenshealth.medscape.com/4219.rhtml
UREAPLASMA UREALYTICUM COMMON IN CORD BLOOD
Close to half of cord blood specimens taken from a cohort of military women
tested positive for one or more potentially pathogenic microorganisms.
http://womenshealth.medscape.com/4243.rhtml
BREAST CANCER RISK HIGHER AMONG SOME OCCUPATIONS
Certain occupations are associated with a significantly higher risk of
breast cancer.
http://womenshealth.medscape.com/4244.rhtml
BRCA1, BRCA2 MUTATIONS INFREQUENT IN YOUNGER BREAST CANCER PATIENTS
Mutations in the BRCA1 and BRCA2 genes account for only a small proportion
of the familial breast cancer risk in British women.
http://womenshealth.medscape.com/4245.rhtml
BENIGN BREAST LESION LINKED TO CANCER
The risk of breast cancer is nearly doubled in women whose breast tissue
contains even one radial scar.
http://womenshealth.medscape.com/4266.rhtml
ORAL CONTRACEPTIVE USE LINKED WITH INCREASE RISK OF HIV-1 TRANSMISSION
Women who use oral contraceptives have a significantly increased risk of
HIV-1 infection.
http://womenshealth.medscape.com/4279.rhtml
NEW USE OF ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE AFTER BREAST CANCER SURGERY SIGNALS DISTRESS
Women who turn to alternative medicine following conventional treatment for
early-stage breast cancer are more distressed about their illness than
women who either do not use alternative medicine or who used alternative
therapies prior to their illness.
http://womenshealth.medscape.com/4280.rhtml
WOMEN STERILIZED AT YOUNG AGE MORE LIKELY THAN OLDER WOMEN TO REGRET DECISION
Overall, most women who decide to undergo tubal sterilization remain happy
with the decision. But women who undergo the procedure at 30 years of age
or younger are more likely to regret the decision later than women who were
older than 30.
http://womenshealth.medscape.com/4284.rhtml
BACTERIAL VAGINOSIS MAY BE CAUSED BY A SEXUALLY TRANSMISSIBLE BACTERIOPHAGE
A virus that is sexually transmitted and infects lactobacilli may be the
underlying cause of bacterial vaginosis.
http://womenshealth.medscape.com/4285.rhtml
BREAST IMPLANT LITIGANTS ACCEPT JOINT PLAN OF REORGANIZATION
The Tort Claimants Committee that represents women with silicone breast
implant and product liability claims against Dow Corning Corp. has accepted
Dow Corning's plan of reorganization under Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection.
http://womenshealth.medscape.com/4283.rhtml
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 13:39:34 EDT
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Subject: Re: Positioning
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Magda wrote <<...after nearly a year on Lactnet, I am mildly puzzled by how
seldom positioning is mentioned.>>
I used to feel that proper positioning was the be all and end all, and I was
a real stickler for "correcting" how women held their babies. But a few
years ago I had the opportunity to give bf talks at two postnatal clinics on
the island of St Vincent in the Grenadines, West Indies. I was speaking to
groups of about 30-40 new mothers. Before the talks I spoke to the head
nurse to ask if there was anything in particular she wanted me to touch on
and she said "too early weaning" which there means introduction of solids,
not the end of bf. So I focused my talk on the introduction of solids, and
the attendant hazards.
However as I looked around the room during the talk I was amazed at the
amount of "improper" positioning I observed. All the mothers brought their
babies with them (yay!), so I was able to observe most everyone bf their
babies at some point during my talk. At the end of the talk and discussion
period, I asked the head nurse if she wanted me to address sore nipples with
the mothers before they left. She looked genuinely puzzled and asked "Why?"
I said "Don't you see a lot of sore nipples?" She said that they rarely saw
sore nipples. Now these moms were very dark skinned women of African
descent, but we've been taught for years that skin color didn't matter and
positioning did. These moms have a bf rate in the 90th percentile and most
of them do nurse for at least a year according to the nurses. They are just
battling with moms who introduce solids at two months.
After this experience I've decided to observe the bf and ask the mom if she
feels any pain or discomfort. If she does feel pain I certainly offer
suggestions about improving the positioning, but if she doesn't and the milk
transfer is good, I just leave well enough alone. If it ain't broke, don't
fix it. I'm eager to hear how the rest of you handle positioning issues.
Cynthia D. Payne, LLLL
LLL of Berkshire County Mass.
Studying for the exam for July '99!
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 14:37:59 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: C Eden <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: positioning
I like Cynthia's take on positioning; if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I
had a mother at an LLL meeting once challenge my suggestion to someone with
plugged ducts to nurse the baby in what she must have considered an
unorthodox position, "But isn't that bad positioning?"
I have been known to say that paying careful attention to positioning can be
important in the beginning, but that as babies grow and start having their
own preferences, many bf mothers get more creative. I was talking to a lady
at the park the other day that said she just weaned her large (25 pound) 8
or 9 month old because he was too heavy to hold anymore. I was thinking
that pretty soon she wouldn't have had to hold him any more anyway..... She
did say he didn't like to nurse laying down.
Claire Cutler Eden
La Leche League Leader
Lake Worth, Florida
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 13:47:43 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: different between infant formula and Sustacal
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>According to the national radio news I heard, the formula was recalled
>because the shipment contained adult nutritional supplement product that was
>mislabled as formula. You can imagine the difficulties a little 6 week old
>sweetie pie could get into if s/he drank that in a bottle!
I asked before, HOW DIFFERENT are these two products, really?
Kathy Dettwyler
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 13:50:54 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Messages
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>Even tho she enjoyed nsg, this mom felt that the video
>conveyed the message that "w/o your milk, you're nothing" and that mothers
>who bottlefeed and fathers will never be as close.
I disagree with the first part ("w/o your milk, you're nothing") but not
with the second part. I don't think mothers who bottlefeed or fathers, will
ever have the same close relationship as between a mother and a child who
nursed into or beyond childhood.
And for every mother who might be "turned off" by the sight of a toddler
nursing in an LLL video (or meeting, or whatever), there will be another who
says "Oh, I didn't know I was *allowed* to keep on nursing, even though I
want to." Readers/viewers/recipients of information will do all sorts of
things to the information they get -- misinterpret it, ignore it, feel
guilty because of it . . . . . or find it useful, empowering, important,
life-changing.
Kathy Dettwyler
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 20:26:46 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Positioning
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I am pretty certain that Magda would feel the same - no need to correct
positioning if feeding is happy, effective and pain-free for both mother
and baby (sorry Magda - I'm not speaking *for* you - I want to pitch in
here and don't want to sound as if I'm disagreeing with your post).
Babies beyond the newborn stage often do get attached and positioned in
ways which seem 'wrong' if we're going by the textbood.
Quite apart from my exp. as a counsellor, I know this from my dayjob
(journalist, writer) when I have had to supervise photo sessions aimed at
illustrating a breastfeeding chapter or article in a book or magazine.
Typically, the baby in these sorts of sessions will be two months old or
so and feeding *beautifully* with mum relaxed and confident. That's why
they're chosen for the session.
You know, *we can never get those babies to do what they're supposed to do*
- illustrating attachment and positioning is often hopeless - they do it
their way : ) I think in fact they are doing it so quickly and
efficiently, you don't see it. They can also feed with their heads and
bodies in different positions, even with heads turned.
One book I was working on, we just had to touch the pictures up afterwards
- it's a really well-known best-selling baby book, too.
In other cases, we have just decided to show positioning with line drawings
where the babies are much more conventional in their positioning : )
It would be crazy to jump in and 'correct' someone's positioning....but
when a mother and baby are just learning, or when there are already
problems, it's gotta be something you really look for.
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:29:04 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: nipple shield, plugged ducts, sore nipple
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I could use some suggestions for a mom nursing a 5 wker, I saw this mom and
baby at about 5 hrs of age, spont. vag delivery, mom had a "long" epidural,
and had puffy, flat nipples. (she states she always has soft nipples) we did
the sandwhich to compress tissue, but baby would not latch on at all at that
time. She did lots of skin to skin, and later that day did latch on to the
right breast, but with much pain for mom, baby was postioned and latched
correctly. I assumed this was pain from nipples being "pulled out". Next day
baby absolutely refused to nurse. As a last resort before giving a bottle, I
offered a nipple shield, which baby immediately latched and nursed a good,
long time, swallowing heard. Bt wt was 6.3, Dc wt 5-13, today in LC office
was 8.1. She has been very careful with her milk supply, and her main concern
now is that her left nipple doesn't "fill up" the shield and is getting
pinched, which of course causes great pain, this causes shortened nursing and
so she has plugged ducts as well. Pumping is not painful.
I have researched the archives, but didn't see anything about nipple
compression using a shield. She has tried many times to nurse without it,
without success. I feel this is a fragile situation, and am worried this may
cause her to wean. I really appreciate any suggestions offered!!
Margaret Sullivan, ICCE, IBCLC
in HOT Va. Beach, VA
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:39:47 -0400
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From: Daniel Hirsch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: breast pump recommendations
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Dear Lactnetter's:
I would appreciate recommendations and advice pertaining to
breastpumps. Which ones do people like? We will be choosing
breastpumps to use in both our lactation center (I plan on developing
a pump-rental station) and for in-patients. I would think it would be
easier to go with one manufacturer for the whole "operation." In
advance, I appreciate everyone's PRIVATE input. (I don't want to be in
violation of Lactnet rules)
Danny Hirsch, MD
Director, Lactation Center
Sound Shore and Westchester Medical Centers (as of July 1)
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 20:38:44 GMT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Magda Sachs <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: BfN The Breastfeeding Network
Subject: clarification on positioning
Cynthia,
I too have often seen women with 'incorrect' looking positioning who are just
feeding happily and, of course I don't then do anything. In my post I was
talking about the women who come because something is not right for them. Hope
this clarifies my thinking.
Magda Sachs
Breastfeeding Supporter, BfN, UK
(But wouldn't it be a fascinating study to do an RCT of breastfeeding women, one
group assigned to get a few sessions' input on positioning/attachment with an
experienced helper, whether or not they are 'needed', and the control group not
given these routine inputs, just the normal service available to them.......
Then we would have a firmer basis for knowing about the interventions we give on
poistioning. Anyone looking for a research proposal?)
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 20:45:11 GMT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Magda Sachs <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: BfN The Breastfeeding Network
Subject: Step 4
>Step 4 of UNICEF's Baby Friendly Hospital Initiative states: Help Mothers
initiate breastfeeding within one hour of birth (in all other nations than
the US, it's 30 minutes; the time parameter here is 60 minutes, I am not
sure why--and this, BTW, was the only change made in the TEn Steps for the
US).<
For information: In the UK Step 4 now reads 'Help mothers initiate
breastfeeding soon after birth' and the only time measure mentioned is that
'skin contact is expected to be uniterrrupted for at least half a n hour and
ideally longer'.
I recall that this was done becasue there was a lot of concern that we were
finally moving away from lots of 'timing' rules (e.g. 10 minutes a side) and the
original Step 4 wording introduced an new measure of time to impose of the
primary feeding experience.
Magda Sachs
Breastfeeding Supporter (and sometime BFI lay assessor), BfN, UK
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:49:03 -0400
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From: Jane and Fred Squires <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Ni;;les/please read
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Dear Lactnetters:
I have spent most of the morning reading through the archives on sore
cracked bleeding nipples. Not much has been written about the subject since
1997. So I hope I am not going to upset you by asking for new information.
Let me try to present the situation in a nutshell:
Mom is 3 weeks postpartum. She called me on day 15. Baby had lost close to
a pound, at the first doctor visit, now she states baby has regained some of
the lost weight. Also baby had jaundice, and was on a home biliblanket.
Mom was treated with iv antibiotics during delivery for +gbs(assymptomatic).
Normal spontaneous vaginal delivery. Epidural for about three hours prior
to delivery. Baby is female.
Observations: Mom struggles with getting baby to breast. Struggles with
arms, and positioning, and holding baby close. I attempted clutch hold,
madonna hold, and finally sidelying. This seems to work.
She has cracks from 12 o'clock to 6 o'clock bilaterally. Once baby has
latched on, for thirty seconds the pain subsides, but does not go away.
Clicking noises heard, but jaws are moving, and ears wiggling. A few
swallowing sounds heard but not a lot. I asked her to keep a feeding,
elimination diary for 24-48 hours. When I came back baby had produced
adequate numbers of stools and voids, per diary and mothers reporting. I
have not personally seen a diaper change. When baby is latched on the lower
lip is flanged out. Yet when I put my gloved finger in baby's mouth she
seems to be tongue thrusting.
Can someone tell me more about how to teach a mother to do suck training. I
never was formally taught how to do this, and feel inadequate at this.
What else can you recommend?
I
thought about using finger feeding, but I want to go with a clear plan in
mind when I see her again.
I really want to help, and mother is very motivated.
She told me over the phone today that the cracks are worse on one side and
better on the other.
I wonder if there is yeast, although there are no s/s of yeast in baby's
mouth or on bottom.
I probably left out something, but I don't want to make this any longer, and
I hope to hear from as many of you as I can. You can email me privately or
to the list whichever you prefer.
Jane Squires
Martinsburg, WV
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:50:11 -0500
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From: "Rebecca DeYoung Daniels, MBA, RD" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Gerber Ad
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I rarely watch TV, but a G*rb*r ad caught my attention the other day.
Can someone help me out w/ an exact quote by Jane Seymour? The gist was
about giving little ones G*rb*r food and not making a "mistake" by
giving them table foods too early...it hit me wrong, but I'd like my
concern letter to the company to be accurate. If you've seen the ad and
can quote the line, I'd love it. TIA!
Rebecca DeYoung Daniels, MBA, RD, LD, CCE in Kansas, USA
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 16:35:29 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: bathing, the topic that will never stop
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i don't spend much time observing baths in hospitals, try not to anyway, but
i didn't notice the nurses using gloves to BATHE the baby at the most recent
nursery visit. if the unbathed baby is so dangerous, then wouldn't you use
gloves for everything all the time? and therefore use gloves with every
patient for every thing you do?
i ask parents if they want me to use gloves for an exam (at home, not in a
hospital setting) and no one ever wants me to. i have done so only when *I*
am sick and want to be cautious.
carol brussel IBCLC
laura nevada lactation
denver colorado
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 17:00:14 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Jane and Fred Squires <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: LC near Essex Maryland
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I got a call from a mother (GM) whose daughter recently delivered at
University of Maryland in Baltimore. She needs an LC who lives in or around
Essex Maryland. That is near Dundalk, MD. Would you please identify
yourself to me. The Grandmother will be calling me back tomorrow (6/8/99)
between the hours of 9-12 noon, Eastern Standard Time. Thank you very much.
Jane Squires
Martinsburg, WV
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 17:58:41 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Alcohol & Breastfeeding
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Thanx to all of you for your input. Someone else told her to pump and
dump, but after talking with me, she decided to BF at the next feeding. Here
in the "Bible belt", one beer is a lot, while in the U.K. 4 beers are nothing
and you Aussies--unlimited beer!
Alice Ernest, LLLL, IBCLC
Simpsonville, SC
Whose 12 year old son, when seeing the news of the ABM recall, said 'I'm so
glad they don't ever have to recall breastmilk".
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:06:40 PDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: laurie wheeler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: 35 wker/pumping
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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Debra
Pumping long term often leads to supply dwindling, in my experience. And
babies at 35 wks can "go either way" meaning they can be kinda fragile and
weak or fairly robust.
Does she have access to a "hospital grade" pump, like the Medela Classic or
Lactina, for example. Does she do "double pumping?" Could she add breast
massage before and hand expression after pumping? I would recommend
"kangaroo care" and continued attempts at nursing. I would recommend that
she express her milk q 2-3 hrs around the clock.
I don't know her exact situation, but maybe a nipple shield, if available,
would be useful to get the baby to breast. Perhaps baby has "imprinted" to a
bottle teat, or perhaps mom's nipples are not very protractile? Getting baby
more time at breast is usually very helpful with supply, however, if the
baby is weak and does not drain the breasts, then she should continue the
regular milk expression til baby can do the job himself.
Glad you can help her.
Laurie
Laurie Wheeler, RN, MN, IBCLC
Hosp LC / Violet Louisiana, USA
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 18:05:46 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: infant formula recall
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i heard in one news report that the sustecal is dairy based and therefore
would cause problems for babies who are allergic to dairy. i guess these
would be different problems that those caused by the prosobee?
carol brussel IBCLC
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Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 06:08:47 +1000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Lisa Boisvert-Mackenzie <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: letter writing
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Fellow Lactnetters,
The Alberta Association of Registered Nurses need to learn from you:
[log in to unmask] Their poster to celebrate Nursing Week in Alberta
features, right in the middle, a nurse holding a baby, FEEDING THAT BABY A
BOTTLE!!!
Lisa Boisvert Mackenzie, Midwife
Saipan, Northern Mariana Islands
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:41:12 PDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: laurie wheeler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: sore nipples case
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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Jane
If the latch has been poor for first weeks, this can lead to supply
problems. Make sure supply is adequate and baby is gaining well. (sounds
like ok output). Did you see in the archives about Jack Newmans all purpose
nipple ointment (apno)? This is an antibiotic/antifungal/cortisone combi
ointment. Sometimes we have to use the antifungal/cortisone with an
antibacterial. Also some of the hydrogel dressings may help. Check archives
on this too.
Check for tongue tie. Can baby extend tongue? If not this, Maybe try finger
fdg for short time before latching. Latch when the suck feels normal, ie.
the baby is cupping his tongue around and extending it to the first knuckle
on your finger and moving in the peristaltic wave. Sometimes you have to
eval. this w/ fluid. Sometimes bottle feeding with a slow-flow, soft
silicone, wide based nipple can help retrain the suck. This is in archives
too somewhere. If baby is not latching well and draining breasts, mom may
need to express/pump after feeds. Some moms feed one side per feeding and
then pump the other. If baby needs more milk after one side, give per
alternate method.
I hope this next section is not too basic. I always recommend getting baby
and mom naked from waist up whenever we are having this degree of soreness.
The stripe tells you something is really amiss. I get them in the football
hold w/ baby very far back so that when he latches, his chin is deeply into
breast, cheeks close and touching breast, and nose tipped back. Make sure
baby is "melted" into mother, i.e. very close. Have mom hold her breast sort
of towards baby to keep it from jiggling and slipping out. Many moms hold
breast kinda pulling it back. I think of it as holding the sinuses close to
baby's mouth. Support baby securely so babe doesn't relax and let the breast
slip out. If mom has low supply or slow letdown (due to pain) then
supplementing at breast may encourage baby to suck better and extend tongue
for deeper sucks. I hope you can use some of this.
Laurie Wheeler, RN, MN, IBCLC
Violet Louisiana, USA
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 17:47:18 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Sweet story (not breastfeeding)
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My 18 year old, Miranda, went over to babysit last night for the first time
at the home of a single mom with boys ages 2 and 3, and a girl, age 7. Mom
left at 6:30 pm, and wasn't due home til 9:30 pm (and didn't show up til 11
pm, but that's another story). Three year fell asleep on the couch watching
TV. Miranda was putting the two year old to bed and 7 year old came in to
see "what is taking you so long?" Miranda said "I'm singing to Nicky and
rubbing his belly, and he is almost asleep, but he's not quite there yet."
Seven year old said "My mom just shuts the door and lets him cry himself to
sleep every night." Miranda said (without thinking) "That's not good for
children. They shouldn't be left alone to cry." Seven year old says "Will
you PLEASE tell my mom that??"
Later, Miranda laid down with the seven year old and read her a story, then
stayed and read her own book til the child was asleep.
Kathy Dettwyler
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 19:31:15 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: culture shock
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At the 2nd LLL mtg I ever went to, with my 6 wk old nursling (1966), the
leader mentioned her nursing 18 mo old - I didn't even see the toddler and
I was totally shocked, funny it wasn't the same when my nursling got to 18
mo, seemed to be the most natural thing in the world :-) Sincerely, Pat
in SNJ
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 19:51:47 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Sweet story (not breastfeeding)
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Dear Kathy, it is really a sad story. Sad that so many babies and children
are routinely treated like this in the US.
When new parents express shock about suggestions of sleeping with baby I
ask them if they like to sleep alone - then the light dawns!
Hurray for Miranda, I bet she will be a lovely mom. Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 20:19:23 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: documentation tools
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As a recently hired LC in a community hospital setting, I was asked to look
at the asssessment /documentaion tool. The postpartum floor has used the
LATCH tool for
over 2yrs. now, but has had some objection from a few concerned pediatricians
on its reliability and validity . I have done a search of the archives and
came up with very little. Does anyone have a tool that works well(and well
received by nurses and MDs). I am in a GREAT position to make positive
changes and I look to you ,who have been doing great things out there. If you
would like to share your opinions you can E-mail me privately
at [log in to unmask]
Thanks,
Stacey Waite,RNC,IBCLC
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 20:51:22 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Sarah Barnett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: culture shock
Comments: To: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <199906071953.SM00249@default>
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When I went to my first LLL meeting my baby was 9 months old. The title
of the meeting was "Nursing the Older Baby". I thought that I was. It
was liberating to find out that I wasn't. And here I am almost 27 years
later... I do think that we can take this fear of shocking and
instilling guilt a litle too seriously. I do firmly believe that
breastfeeding is better for a long, long time. Things will never change
until lots of people hear this, have time to think about it and hopefully
do change their ideas.
Sarah
Sarah Friend Barnett LLLL, IBCLC
Bronx (New York City), NY - [log in to unmask]
" You are not obliged to finish the task,
neither are you free to neglect it." R. Tarfon
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 21:14:57 EDT
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<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Afterpains
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Spoke with a G2P2 mom, successful bf more than a year with baby number one.
With that first baby she had cracked and bleeding nipples for more than 6
weeks and never a thought of quitting, so motivation is not her problem.
This time -- baby a week old -- she has utererine cramping with every feeding
so severe that she had to let go of the baby to clutch her belly and double
over -- on several occasions, she says, "I popped him off and threw him on
the bed." She is all but afraid to nurse at this point -- forces herself
because she knows that this is no time to limit nursing but dreads it
extremely.
Her midwife's helpful comment was, "Yes, afterpains are normal after the
first baby." But no suggestions for mitigation, or how long this might go
on.
Anyone have any ideas for diminishing this pain? Herbal or homeopathic
suggestions? Or is there a benefit from these cramps important enough to
make it worth suffering gracefully?
Thanks for info.
Elisheva Urbas
lay bf supporter in NYC
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 21:24:45 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Sarah Barnett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Afterpains
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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I suggest to women that they use their relaxation/ pain control
techniques from prepared childbirth classes. Also their are lots of pain
killers that are compatible if needed. In my mind the risk/benefit
ratio is way in favor of continued breastfeeding with painkillers instead
of weaning.
Sarah
Sarah Friend Barnett LLLL, IBCLC
Bronx (New York City), NY - [log in to unmask]
" You are not obliged to finish the task,
neither are you free to neglect it." R. Tarfon
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 21:00:09 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: gima <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Afterpains
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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>Anyone have any ideas for diminishing this pain? Herbal or homeopathic
>suggestions? Or is there a benefit from these cramps important enough to
>make it worth suffering gracefully?
I would recommend calcium/magnesium supplements--at least 1000mg Ca with 500mg Mag a day. These can easily be found in combination supplements.
Ca./Mag is very good at easing uterine cramping from whatever cause.
Pat Gima, IBCLC
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 22:10:45 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Janice Berry <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Messages
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Kathy Dettwyler wrote:
> I disagree with the first part ("w/o your milk, you're nothing") but not
> with the second part. I don't think mothers who bottlefeed or fathers,
will
> ever have the same close relationship as between a mother and a child who
> nursed into or beyond childhood.
I agree. I wish I could say that my relationship with my son (whom I nursed
only one week :-( ) is as close as that with my daughter, but it isn't. I
did everything I could, and we've learned to be close in other ways -- but
it was a great loss to miss out on the intimacy of nursing him until he was
ready to stop. It hurts to hear that and to say it -- but it is also the
truth.
Until I had nursed her, I would probably have denied that -- primarily
because I didn't have any idea what I was missing. I spent years grieving
over the loss of our breastfeeding relationship and thought I was done by
the time my daughter came along. In reality, though, the grief was just
beginning.
Janice Berry, mom of Zack (11/30/92) and Gina (9/4/96)
Westerville, OH
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 22:09:44 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 6 Jun 1999 to 7 Jun 1999 - Special issue
(#1999-19)
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In a message dated 6/7/99 10:51:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<< Just to let you all know that a mother who had bf x 7 mos told me that she
was shown a LLL video during pg >>
Was this video produced by LLLI or just available in the LLL library? I don't
think LLL has produced a video. Medela produced a video in cooperation with
LLLI but I don't remember this being in that video.
This may be a good point to clarify-there are many books and videos available
in the LLLI catelogue which are produced but by many different authors and
these represent many different views. Just remind the mom to take the
information she finds helpful in her parenting development and leave what she
doesn't think is helpful for others.
Barbara Whitehead, IBCLC
Ayden NC
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 22:15:01 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 7 Jun 1999 - Special issue (#1999-21)
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In a message dated 6/7/99 6:00:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<< I asked before, HOW DIFFERENT are these two products, really?
>>
The one for adults helps you go whitewater rafting and zipping down a road in
a convertible.
( You see how effective their marketing department is-I remember their TV
ads!!!).
Barb Whitehead, IBCLC
Ayden NC
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 22:10:14 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Joyce Blangiardo <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Afterpains
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Elisheva wrote of a G2P2 mom
+AD4-This time -- baby a week old -- she has utererine cramping with every
feeding
+AD4-so severe that she had to let go of the baby to clutch her belly and double
+AD4-over +AD4-
This seems unusually severe a week postpartum. First time moms may barely
notice them and they are typically more uncomfortable with each additional
pregnancy, or in the case of a multiple pregnancy. Fut they generally
diminish in intensity each day until barely perceptible. The intensity of
the pain 7 days into it seriously concerns me....perhaps she has some
retained placental fragments which her uterus is attempting to discharge.
At what point did she see or discuss this with the midwife? I'd suggest a
call now followed by a visit to her midwife or physician to explain the
intensity and explore this possibility.
+AD4-Anyone have any ideas for diminishing this pain+AD4-
Usually a mild analgesic would handle any discomfort at this point. Hers is
beyond this level from what you describe......
+AD4-Or is there a benefit from these cramps important enough to
+AD4-make it worth suffering gracefully?+AD4-
The purpose of the contractions is to involute the uterus. To enable it
return to close to prepregnant size. But worth suffering gracefully? No,
she should not have to suffer at all IMO, gracefully or not. Please urge
her to follow up on discovering the cause of this level of discomfort now.
Joyce Blangiardo RN, LCCE, FACCE, IBCLC
on boiling hot and humid Long Island, NY
LamazeLady+AEA-msn.com
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 22:43:38 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: positioning
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Cynthia:
take a good look at shiela kitzingers 'new" book... from a positioning
perspective.
Patricia
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 16:31:38 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: bclesperance <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: M-J study
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Carol, I agree that this study, because it went through an IRB, would have
to have explored the risks to the patient and that these risks would have
to be communicated to the patient; however, I wonder how thorough they were
when including "risks" of formula in their proposal? The reviewers made
their decision based on the proposal they were given. Were they given
complete information? Any way possible to get the proposal or a copy of the
consent form? I have never tried this, but I wonder if it is possible to
furnish additional information to a review board after it has been
approved. I am concerned that the mothers who agree to be in this study
will not have the complete information on what this will do to the health
of their infant and of the long term consequences.
Carol L'Esperance, RN, MSN, IBCLC
Albuquerque, NM 87106 USA
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 23:00:18 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Christine Betzold <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: A nurse and a bottle
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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I am disheartened that my profession is not aware of the consequences of
bottle-feeding a baby. You must be aware of the consequences if you are
celebrating nurses week with a picture of a nurse bottle-feeding a baby. For
centuries women who hand-fed or fed artificial milk via a bottle lost their
children. They died of diarrhea, pneumonia and epidemics much more
frequently than those breastfed. Today bottle-feeding continues to promote
disease both long and short-term. Children bottle-fed are more likely to
become ill, die of SIDS and be hospitalized. If they live to become adults
there is much evidence that they will be adults with chronic diseases such as
diabetes, MS, colitis, and heart disease. Promoting a behavior that causes
illness is not consistent with the tenets of our profession, therefore it is
essential that we strongly promote breastfeeding. Promotion of breastfeeding
is a health education and health promotion issue. It is public health issue.
It is a nurturing behavior. IT IS WELLNESS and NORMALCY. I implore you to
change your ad for nursing week. Maybe a nurse helping a mom breastfeed.
Christine Betzold MSN FNP
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 20:15:10 PDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: laurie wheeler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: afterpains
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Elisheva
I agree w/ the many suggestions re pain relief for the afterpains. I was
going to suggest the Ca/Mg suppls.
However, THIS DOES NOT SOUND NORMAL TO ME. Afterpains usually subside in 3-4
days - usually - and I have never had that degree of pain reported to me.
Now, surely this CAN BE w/i the range of normal, but I would recommend a
recheck w/ the midwife or doc. Maybe a retained fragment, infection?
Laurie
Laurie Wheeler, RN, MN, IBCLC
Violet Louisiana, USA
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 21:27:09 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: bclesperance <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Positioning
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Before we can research "positioning" we have to define it.
Carol L'Esperance, RN, MSN, IBCLC, Albuquerque, NM
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 22:51:57 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Denny Rice <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: ceu's
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Help! I'm in the sorry position of needing ALL of my ceu's to keep my IBCLC!
Due to an endless string of medical emergencies and complications, and having
twins in 95, I have not done the necessary cont. ed. How can I find all sources
of potential CEUs that hopefully won't cost me a fortune?
I live in Dallas, Texas, USA
Denny
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