Hi Joop Thanks for the reply. I think my reply must have missed your orignal question slightly about traditional beekeeping in africa. There are a number of areas where traditional beekeepers operate with the aid of extension officers to produce marketable honey. In Zimbabwe around Harare and neighbouring rural areas the ex-government apiculturist - Mike Schmolke - operates white a successful rural beekeeping concern. He has taught people how to produce honey with top bar hives, and then also how to grade it and such. He goes around and buys the stuff from them, then has a proccessing plant in Harare where he cleasn it up, grades it and so on. This results in quite a lot of cash transfer into the rural economy. These beekeepers do not however smoke the bees right out of the hive. In Kenya there is also quite a strong rural beekeeping industry, as with countries like Uganda and so on. In my area when people raid wild hives, or hives they have in boxes it usually results in the bees absconding - but withing two or three weeks a new swarm will have moved into the hive. The older men who raid the hives know how to leave a small piece of comb for the bees, but not always. The younger generation has forgotten or does not care. This is sad as in many african cultures the bees are seen as being representatives of the ancestors - when people stop showing respect for their ancestors something is wrong. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey If you are not living on the edge you are taking up too much space!!