Hi All, I am sure that whoever wrote this particular line "Are LC's priests, and LLL the recipient of church teaching?" didn't mean it to come out quite the way it sounds. I feel that it sounds rather not nice, and as Kathy said, confrontive. But I think it was a question rather than a comment, if you catch my drift. IMHO, LC's are people who have taken the IBCLE exam and passed, or who have taken a course (long term and LOTS of work) through someplace like BSC and have graduated with a degree or certificate of LC. They are the ones who have usually worked very hard to earn the recognition to be an LC. However, I have known LC's (board certified) who didn't know half of what some LLLL friends of mine know, and were nowhere near as competent in helping a mom and baby succeed at BF. I think, also, that "Lay BF counselor" simply means that your education is not a formal one, but one of self education and learning from those around you (rather than going to shcool, taking CLE courses etc.). It doesn't mean that the Lay BF counselor knows less than an LC, or someone with a formal type of BF education, it is just different. Being a "Lay" BF counselor is a great thing to be because it shows the average woman/mom that knowing how to BF and knowing how to help someone BF is not something that you have to learn in a formal education forum, anyone can do it. This puts BF back in the "hands", so to speak, of women everywhere, like it ought to be. I know a gal, my very best friend, who is LLLL, has no formal traning like I do, is not a CLE and has no CERPs or CEUs or anything like that. She has been a LLLL for about 6 years, and yet with all my training and education, and her, supposed, lack of formal training and "only" being a lay counselor, knows just as much as I do, and in fact knows more about some areas of BF than I do. I know more about other areas than she does, but what I know is no more important that what she knows. We seem to complement each others educations very nicely. I think that anyone who can say that they are a Lay BF Counselor ought to be very proud. It takes a lot of work to learn, on your own, what you can learn in a formal training course, and those of you who are Lay BF Counselors, pat yourself on the backs, you are a benefit to our society and our moms and babies. People who have gone on to become Board Certified, or who have taken formal training or education to become LC's are wlao very improtant, and I think we all know why. There are some situations that require the expertise of someone who has the extra education and experience that an IBCLC, or RN IBCLC can offer. (Goodness knows I was one of them almost 4 yrs ago.) We, in the field of BF, those of us who help moms BF in one way or another, are all valuable. There are no Priests and recipients, we educate each other when we are open enough to listen. We have Drs on this list who knew very little about BF, who are on here asking questions, saying "Hey I did this with a mom, was it right?" and I think that is awsome! We have LCs asking for help and getting advice from LLLL and peer counselors. This is the way it is supposed to be. We help each other, because no one knows it all, regardless of how much formal or informal training you have. And, I must say that even the leaders in the field, no matter how much they know or haow great they are, even they don't have all the answers. :) Work with each other, help each other, love each other, but most of all Respect each other... With lots of love and gratitude to all I have learned from you, Lactnet, Jay Jay Simpson, CLE Sacramento, CA "No Miracles performed here, just a lot of love and hard work." LACTNET Quilt Raffle Check out the web page then e-mail me at [log in to unmask] for where to send for your tickets!