In a message dated 97-03-09 01:26:32 EST, [log in to unmask] (Paul Cronshaw, D.C.) writes: << . Continuing saga of the new swarm that moved into a large oak tree. I smoked the heck out of this swarm to drive them out, but they have held fast to their new home. Would a rolled up paper town with Bee-Go dropped into their new home drive them out? >> Not likely. If you are really determined, try drumming. You might find an old-timey beekeeper that knows the technique. Be forewarned, it's a lot of work. And, of course you will only get the adults, so they colony will be seriously set back. I've had loggers give me a section of tree with a bee colony in it. This is the technique I used when I was young, lean and hungry. Later I went to using a chain saw to grind off a flat spot of the area around the entrance. Then I set a 16 x 20 piece of half inch plywood down, with a hole in the middle, placed right over the open part of the log. Then set a deep super of comb, with a cover, over this. The queen doesn't like to lay in tilted comb, so she readily moves up into the box. Once she's upstairs, you can slip an excluder under the box, and you have the colony. -No loss of brood or honey. If you can't find an experienced drummer, here's the nutshell version: Get a rubber mallet. As close as you can tell, locate the exact site of the brood nest. Smoke them lightly. Begin a steady thumping on the tree at that point. Keep it up for several minutes. The bees can't stand the thumping and they will begin to exit. You will have to have an assistant to capture them and put them in a hive. Watch for the queen and do not stop thumping, at least until you know you have her. It will help, if you have a frame of brood in the hive. Otherwise you may have the entire colony just take off and leave, after you think they are established. It also would be good to do this late enough, so that they are forced to spend the night in their new home. The bees generally will be very gentle after a couple minutes of drumming. They don't seem to care for anything but to get away from the irritation. I'd plug up the tree, when done. After the hive has some of its own brood in the new box, you might open the tree back up and let them rob out the honey. But don't wait too long as it will have fermented, and the dead brood could vector diseases, too. Personally I don't think it's worth the effort and the sore arm. It's a lot easier to make nucs. It's a learning experience anyway. Each to his own. [log in to unmask] Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) Pollination for lay people, students, teachers ....Of bees, beekeepers, and food http://users.aol.com/queenbjan/primbees.htm Pollination for the pros - those involved in doing it: Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Varietal Honeys and Gift Sets http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm