Hello again Mark. This race selection thing can get really sticky. As I said last time, there is alot of variability within the races. When I started, 25 yrs ago, practicaly everyone ran Italians. Not all Italians are alike. Those selected by southern breeders tend to be the broody, large population type because is what they need for package production. This type of bee can be a problem in the north because they don't cut back brood production soon enough. Migratory operations do well with these. Similar to the Italian is the Starline. I ran these for several years, but found they had poor wintering characteristics especially when Tracheal mites arrived. Thats when I switched to Carniolan. We tried several sources of these and found the New World type best because they acted more like carnys. These bees are very conservative with winter stores. We have very little starvation and when infected with tracheal mite (HTM) often come through alive although not necessarily strong. This experience is what led us into breeding for resistance. We now have 22 lines, some from each race, all screened for resistance. I have very detailed records of winter loss and honey production back to '83. Heres a short story of what happened: '75-'84- Ran Italians, good production, 5-10% winter loss. '84-'88- Tracheal mites arrived, production dropped, winter loss rose to 30%. However the starline yards where more like 90%. '88-'90- We could not get switched to carniolan fast enough. By 1990 losses were 50%. This is when we realized that just having dark bees was not enough. '91-'95- Losses now back to 5-15% due to breeding for HTM resistance. Also production is rising because of selection. I realize this is kind of sketchy, but a complete story could fill a book. Maybe you should try a comparitave test of your our and see what works well for you. We will have a limited number of queens for sale this summer if you would like to try some from our program. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx x x x Vince & Carole Coppola [log in to unmask] x x Coppola Apiaries, (716)965-2904 x x 10220 Bradigan Rd. x x Forestville, N.Y. 14062 x x x x Western New York Beekeepers Association x x x xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx