Jacquie said: "that in the first day or two, the breast needs the suckling more than the baby needs food." I totally agree with this - for most normal healthy mothers and babies, this time is "learn a new skill time" not a "fill you up to the max so you will sleep" time. Breasts are soft now, and easy to approach - mom has nothing else to do (hopefully others will be caring for her other kids), and a "honeymoon" time of learning each other's bodies, cues and responses is needed. The problem is, most people don't see "normal infant behavior" as "normal" - babies are "crying too much" or "sleeping too much" or "too demanding" or .. For this reason I often send moms to the Secrets of Baby Behavior website and encourage them (and support persons) to read the first 5 blogs in 2009 starting with http://www.secretsofbabybehavior.com/2009/06/not-rocket-science.html - that reassure them that their baby is NORMAL. In fact, I would love to have a TRUE study of how frequently an infant "goes to the breast" (rather than "breastfeeds") in the first 5 days. I believe mothers interpret "baby needs to eat 8 - 10 times in 24 hours" as that "this is the maximum" - and if their baby insists or more, this clearly shows there is "something wrong". However, the normal infants I see "go to the breast" (seek, search, reach out to, rest, go for it, suck 3 times, let go, etc.) 20, 30, 40 or more times in the first few days. I envision this as "learning how to sit or walk, etc." - you don't do it 5 times then quit - you do it over and over as you get muscles to figure out how to do all the different things that need to be done to accomplish the job. Yes, breastfeeding is helped by many newborn reflexes - but the body still needs to figure out how to get THIS head, THIS mouth, onto and around THIS nipple and THIS breast! .and as Jacquie reports - breasts require this tactile and milk removal process (of drops of colostrum, not ounces of mature milk) to get Production going effectively so naturally babies are programmed to have frequent contact with them! (Kangaroo mother care anyone?) Unfortunately, the moms I have seen recently have been "helped" by nurses and staff who "show" them "how to breastfeed". One mom reported to me she felt she was shown how a nurse could "breastfeed my baby with my breast". Our short hospital stays combined with requirements that nurses accomplish the unrealistic education and interventions and documentation (how many document "observed a breastfeeding" when they really mean "helped baby latch-on and left".) I don't believe this is not because they don't know any better - they can't do any better given the physiology of baby (may not be awake/interested during the 5 minutes the nurse had at bedside) and mother (she was in the bathroom trying to figure out how to pee) in those first 24 hours.and the HUGE list of "objectives" they must complete prior to discharge. Thus I get calls such as the one this weekend from a crying mom on day 5 (of course it is Sunday morning) who had no follow-up appointment until Monday but whose baby hasn't nursed effectively since 11 AM on Saturday. Yes, she delivered in a Baby Friendly Hospital - but she was released into a "baby un-friendly" culture! How I wish we had a "respite care" for mothers and babies together after discharge - a "home" (or home service) where they could come for the day, get food and support, education for their support persons, and a reduction in stress "I was sure my baby was going to die unless he got formula!" That's what I needed, too - in 1971, living far away from family. Luckily I had La Leche League Leaders to call (as this mom called me)! Our descriptions of newborn infant behavior need to extend BEYOND the "Magical hour" or "the second night" to what it is really like to have a newborn at home - and where help is available when panic is setting in! They won't remember lectures, often have lost handouts and can't find the book. but they usually do remember a phone number to text or a facebook page to post a question! Jeanette Panchula, BSW, RN, PHN, IBCLC - this weekend - La Leche League Leader Vacaville, CA After being a La Leche League Leader since 1975 and an IBCLC since 1985 I feel qualified to confirm the statement: "Half of the information we teach today is wrong.the trouble is, we don't know which half!" *********************************************** Archives: http://community.lsoft.com/archives/LACTNET.html To reach list owners: [log in to unmask] Mail all list management commands to: [log in to unmask] COMMANDS: 1. To temporarily stop your subscription write in the body of an email: set lactnet nomail 2. To start it again: set lactnet mail 3. To unsubscribe: unsubscribe lactnet 4. To get a comprehensive list of rules and directions: get lactnet welcome