My copy of the Hive and the Honey Bee (1992 page 829) lists winter losses before mites as about 15% for the US as a whole but for us lucky ones in the far north would easily be 30%. Control Varroa and the numbers are about the same as pre Varroa. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine *********************************************** The BEE-L mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned LISTSERV(R) list management software. For more information, go to: http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html