What about colony productivity? Or are you including low productivity in your definition of "colony failure of any sort"? Impossible to define low productivity. Way to many variables, no baseline can be established as weather and flora vary from year to year, honey storage from hive to hive is already a huge variable. I have been pondering this a month or maybe a year now...... only way to even come close would be a average of a huge number of hives, in an untreated area, but then you would have to dose one half, but to how to be sure they got field realistic doasage when they won't take feed?? I tend to think that's why we see a lot of comments on the effects of sub lethal dosages...... can't prove it one way or the other... Charles *********************************************** The BEE-L mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned LISTSERV(R) list management software. For more information, go to: http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html