>>> We treat bees, not boxes. I assume that whoever wrote the label >>> assumed that the aforementioned boxes were full of brood. In >>> fact, I have seldom seen more than ten frames of brood. > Jeez Allen, you are sure assuming a lot! The manufacturers of Apivar > are not idiots, know how many frames of brood are in a typical hive, > and have 15 year's experience with the product in Europe. Jeeeez Randy. Why not just leave out my name, supposed assumptions, and implied mental status and just address the topic? No matter, I decided that maybe I was hallucinating those years when I inspected hives -- after all I am getting on in years and apparently getting senile -- and decided to consult an expert. I chose one everyone respects, who is definitely not an idiot, who works Sundays on a long weekend, and who has had input into the writing of the Canadian Apivar label. (Yes, that is just one person, not four.) --- begin conversation --- AD:> How many strips are Alberta beekeepers using these days per brood chamber? Expert:> 1 strip for every 5 frames of bees. We don't use strips per box - that is subjective. AD:> I seem to recall that everyone used two strips in the fall. But then I was busy doing alcohol washes and not really paying a lot of attention to how many strips the used. Everyone said two as I recall anyhow. Expert:> When they use 2 strips the results are not reliable due to application on top box and bees in the bottom. We ensure that our recommendation is clear. Fall treatment can be 2, 3 or 4. Expert:> Then the alternative treat in spring only 2 needed and results are reliable. Expert:> Now almost 80% use spring treatment AD:> Thanks. I always figured spring is best if you can wait that long Expert:> All depends on the year. Some years, (a) few beekeepers with high level(s) can apply spring and fall --- end conversation --- I may not be very smart and make a lot of assumptions, but I _have_ over several years looked frame-by-frame through hundreds of hives that are a representative sampling of tens or hundreds or thousands of hives that have been treated with Apivar for several years -- and some that have not, while personally doing alcohol washes, filling out forms and talking to the beekeepers. In short, it was not at all unusual to see zeros and occasional highs of fewer than 10 mites in October hives that had not been treated for a year, and all zeros in hives that had a spring Apivar treatment. Of course there was the occasional exception. Some (one?) who treated in spring had poor control, with numbers like 30+ by fall! As far as I can tell, it all has to do with strip placement. If a strip is not near the open brood for the duration of treatment, it is much less effective, and possibly wasted, especially if not well inside the cluster 24/7 during the treatment period.. Alberta Beekeepers who use two strips in the top box, then feed heavily and drive the bees down off the strips into the lower box get poor control. Those who place them where the brood is, and/or move them if the brood shifts, get satisfactory control. If the strips are moved, by the label, the treatment period can be extended to 56 days. Another alternative is to place strips where the cluster is and also where it will be in a month, employing three or four strips. The decision is one of economics. There is labour involved in opening hives. Two extra strips per hive cost $5, and a trip to the yard to move them costs what? In some cases nothing and in others hundreds of dollars. Regarding the manufacturers knowing how many frames of brood are in a typical hive, maybe in addition to 'not being idiots', they are clairvoyant? I sure don't know. Some beekeepers use standard depth and some use mediums or westerns, and some even use shallows as brood chambers, believe it or not. Also some beekeepers run eight frames and some ten. At one time, I ran twelve mediums (Farrar) with standard spacing and Manley frames.The label does not specify what size of brood chamber or frame. And then there are nucs... Trying to Follow the label literally as it is written presents a real quandary for a thinking person and an unnecessary expense for the rest. --- Allen Dick Swalwell, Alberta, Canada 51°33'37.58"N 113°18'54.24"W Semi-retired - 40+ years keeping bees - 4500 hives max Currently running ~70 hives Hives for sale year-round http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ *********************************************** The BEE-L mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned LISTSERV(R) list management software. For more information, go to: http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html