>Many beekeepers reported "CCD" without limiting to only colonies that fit the original definition. As I understand it, the classic symptoms are rarely encountered, while general colony collapse is exceedingly widespread. Can you clarify this? I've discussed this issue and clarified terms involved at http://scientificbeekeeping.com/sick-bees-part-18b-colony-collapse-revisited/ When I refer to CCD, I'm referring to the early definition--strong colonies from which the adult population suddenly (in days) disappears, often leaving brood behind, sometimes with a handful of bees and the queen. >I could list several large commercial beekeepers (if needed )which tell me > they believe CCD is a myth. > Never saw a hive they could not find a reason for the demise. > Not clear on this Bob. No one says that CCD doesn't have identifiable causes. CCD is a set of symptoms, not a cause. > > >beekeepers worked hard to eliminate virus by controlling varroa at > extremely > low levels and controlling nosema. Still the hive problems. > When you say "still the hive problems," are you referring to simple colony overwintering mortality, or the CCD symptoms above? > > >What are we missing? What is the cause which causes a yard to crash > (CCD) when a yard down the road ( CCD) is not affected? > Not sure that we're missing anything. > > >What can cause hives to crash within a couple weeks of checked as strong? > Either certain virus strains or nosema can do so, especially when colonies are stressed by other factors. However, there are clear signs in advance of sudden collapse--unfortunately, many beekeepers are not aware of them, and may miss them. > > >What causes bees to leave the hive and abandon brood? > This is well explained at http://scientificbeekeeping.com/sick-bees-part-2-a-model-of-colony-collapse/ This model is well accepted by the CCD researchers with whom I've spoken. > > >To my knowledge the neonics have not been eliminated as a possible *cause* > (trigger) as per the above dictionary definition. > Any number of pesticides or miticides could certainly be contributors in that they stress the colony. However, as hard as researchers all over the world have tried, none have yet established any link between neonics and sudden collapse, or even with colony wintering mortality. On the other hand, there are abundant research findings to the contrary. This is not any sort of sales pitch for neonics, simply a summary of research findings to date. -- Randy Oliver Grass Valley, CA www.ScientificBeekeeping.com *********************************************** The BEE-L mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned LISTSERV(R) list management software. For more information, go to: http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html Guidelines for posting to BEE-L can be found at: http://honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm