Hello Randy & All, Randy you will love this post! There are many myths about bees from out of state beekeepers and when traced back most rumors go back to California beekeepers. Almond growers will say they get plenty of strong hives from out of state ( in fact most of the hives in almonds come from out of state). I have personally seen plenty of "dink" hives in California beekeepers yards. Also in out of state beekeepers yards. Out of state beekeepers which send bees to almonds yearly know not to send "dinks". Most "dinks" come from first time shippers. My beekeeping partner was constantly saying "Bob somebody is going to catch you looking through California beeks hives' My answer: "You don't think they look through ours ?" A couple points which California beeks never talk about. 1. hives confined over winter from the Midwest are ALL winter bees and young bees without worn out wings (like many California hives). They hit the air with a vengeance not seen in California wintered hives. (personal observation). The Midwest hives send out a higher number of foragers because few nurse bees are needed. Almost all the hives bees are forager age! When you have kept bees both in the south and overwintered in the north you understand what I am saying. Bees wings wear out. Old bees die quickly when moved into a strong pollination. Most of the "bees by the pound' are lying dead on the almond grove floor in a few days . two sides to every coin and story. I am sure Randy will provide a different opinion! 2. The rating system in California is based simply on sheer numbers of bees. Nothing else! Not quality of the bees. Jerry B. said when he checked even the so called healthy hives had high nosema levels and virus issues but appeared healthy in most instances.. Sheer hive numbers is a poor way to evaluate a hive. Bees by the pound we say . Old bees with worn wings bring the same price as young fresh young Midwest winter bees. Certainly one way to gauge a hive (sheer numbers) but our Australian hives flew and hour earlier and an hour later than our European hives. With no varroa or virus issues each Australian hive performed . No need for remebee on these hives! We actually have video of the difference. Flew in rain! Frank Eischen did a study putting a package against a full size hive. Apples to oranges? Still the Australian package brought in the most pollen *at the start*. As the brood emerged the U.S. full size hive took the lead. Why wouldn't it? Why would you even do such a study? Hmmm. Most of the out of state "dinks" come from North Dakota and northern tier beekeepers which do not have time to work their bees before shipping. A blizzard ( today) in October displays those beeks have to simply ship and sort later. Some try to revive their bees over the winter with new queens etc. but a poor way in my opinion. Old bees from the Dakotas will survive longer than in a cold winter situation. Maybe even to "bees by the pound". Some of the best out of state bees come from Texas. those bees are still today on flows (while in California the bees diet is bathtub pollen sub and HFCS in many cases. This post was so much fun! bob *********************************************** The BEE-L mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned LISTSERV(R) list management software. For more information, go to: http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html Guidelines for posting to BEE-L can be found at: http://honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm