Diane said: But if there really is a difference in percentage of non-latchers, and if any of that is a result of our technique and not the epidural rate, we can change that! How I wish! From my own history: . I was an LLLeader in 1975 - little troubles with latch, lots of troubles with sore nipples - or was it that moms who were really having troubles never came to a group meeting - they just quit? . I was an IBCLC in 1985 - still more troubles with sore nipples than latch - or was it that few moms ever knew I existed and gave up? HOWEVER, I dealt with enough moms that I had to help supplement (even had 2 ER Trips due to babies that really frightened me enough to make me quit private practice!) Kathy Lange, and I were both new IBCLCs and experienced LLLeaders in St. Louis - and would meet to discuss how many moms we were needing to supplement! Many more than we had ever experienced as Leaders. . I was a new nurse in 1989 (yes, "new" but not "young") working on the new Mother-Baby unit in St. Mary's Hospital in St. Louis - I remember saying "what's with all these babies not latching?" They don't seem to know what to do.and then I'd get one that COULD and I asked about the difference - usually it was epidurals. Now the question is - did the epidurals cause the problem or were we positioning moms differently because they had epidurals? I really don't think so - these babies seemed to have no clue how to get their bodies coordinated .like you see in the middle baby in the Righard, Self-attachment video. However, moms were still staying in the hospital for a longer stay - we had more time with them! Now you compound the problem of moms that don't know how to hold a baby, with a mother who has never seen a baby breastfed, with a family that is convinced the baby will die of starvation if they aren't fed immediately and a staff that knows the family is leaving in the next 6 hours and "all h--- will break loose" if that baby comes back because of hyponatremia, hyperbiliruminemia or hypoglycemia . or any other h. you want to think about - and you have a combination that leads to lack of pacing, lack of support and hyper vigilance leading to multiple interventions. ...so hard to separate all the variables! Jeanette Panchula California, USA *********************************************** Archives: http://community.lsoft.com/archives/LACTNET.html To reach list owners: [log in to unmask] Mail all list management commands to: [log in to unmask] COMMANDS: 1. To temporarily stop your subscription write in the body of an email: set lactnet nomail 2. To start it again: set lactnet mail 3. To unsubscribe: unsubscribe lactnet 4. To get a comprehensive list of rules and directions: get lactnet welcome