A few more in the wings indeed, hopefully <6 Yes my bees really have ccd, read archives and save my temper. There are only 30 posts re ccd from me (2007-2008) This hive was also one of the 5 nucs that showed exaggerated symptoms 17 months ago (same Q, ~2yr old both) I caught it at the start of robbing and confess I didn't see the collapse happen It must have been recent On 6 brood frames 20-80 dead, avg~30 A few days younger dead in general, 20% 3.5d larvae, died in place, no one wiggled out Less emergents, a few failed Q cell It does look a first glance like a varoa collapse but there is a little bit more.... (when infection jumps, so does brood mortality) Is this what causes collapse or original infection? Both these hive were more Italian, Russians seem more resistant I'm starting to think that the Ontario method of formic is not adequate, need more They were both strong productive hives, 1st GP, 2nd VG. maybe I was a week or two late with the pads I certainly wish I could pick the most resistant, I'm not sure how? or how can you raise a healthy Q under these circumstances? dave **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * ****************************************************