The striking thing about ground swarms is the tight circle they form - there is a very definite edge, an almost perfect circular shape, no loosening of the cohesive impule on the outer fringe. So I was surprised when Bob found no queen - something was maintaining cohesion. I have usually found either an old queen or a small virgin. I have concluded it is just a matter of the swarm flying and a weak queen being able to go no further, so she just drops. Could a small virgin have got thru the excluder? Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::