The thread of swarm vs. supersedure queens is a perennial topic that will probably go on forever. A swarm queens does not necessarily mean a queen that has left with a swarm, it can mean a queen that is raised by a hive that is under swarm conditions. It is precisely that sort of condition that breeders try to mimic when setting up cell builder colonies; lots of bees in a congested brood chamber. It is likely that a cell builder colony, if left to its own devices, would swarm! The beekeeper "artificially" creates this environment by shaking extra bees into the colony (or possibly shaking a double brood chamber into a single), and giving the colony mostly sealed brood so there are no developing larvae to be fed. Into this cell builder is introduced the grafted larvae. The sometimes, usually queenless cell builder has little brood to care for because the brood is mostly capped, there isn't much need to forage because there is nowhere to store the nectar, and in fact the ONLY thing constructive for the bees to do is feed, feed, feed the grafted developing queens. What determines the BEST queens is their diet while developing. If a colony raising a supersedure queen is able to feed the developing queen as well as a swarm colony will (regardless of how you define a swarm colony), then the supersedure queen will be as good as the swarm colony. If the supersedure colony is run down, possible because the reigning queen hasn't keep populations as high as the it woulda/coulda/shoulda been, then the supersedure queen may not be as well nourished as a queen developing in a swarm colony. The best queens (genetic background issues aside) are the ones that are best nourished during their development. Supersedure vs. Swarm colonies is a red herring. It all comes down to diet; how well the developing queen is nourished. As far as which camp is nuts, in my book calling someone a nut based on what they do, say or believe is counterproductive. Behave boys. Aaron Morris - thinking Almond joys vs. Mounds; sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::