>> Some of the Southern bee breeders would probably ship you a package of drones and by the same token, you could get good quality at the same time.<< > Sorry I see this as a pollution, affection not only the receiver but all > beekeepers/queen breeders around in the receiver's area. There's an interesting point, and one that is often forgotten. Tough words, but true. Currently, Canada is looking at importing mainland US bee stock again, either as queens or as packages, or as both, and this is one aspect of the possible effects that is often overlooked. We have gradually achieved the ability to winter successfully, predictably, and reliably because we do not -- cannot --get southern US stock any more. Imports are again being considered because some beekeepers want US package bees, remembering the good old days when we bought from California, and because many believe that the pests that closed the border can be managed. The consensus, even among those who do not want packages, is that our southern neighbours do have some stock that could be valuable, particularly the Primorsky stock that has been imported to, and refined in, Baton Rouge. It has many desirable characteristics, including very good wintering. Coumaphos resistant mites may keep the border closed, but before we import, the above point is one we should consider carefully as well. We have experience from our own past, and current reports from the US, that a lot of the southern US package stock is not very reliable when it comes to wintering in northern areas. Consequently, if we are not selective, and some beekeepers import that stock, the imports could adversely affect their neighbours who winter by flooding the area with bad wintering stock to the point where everyone could again become dependant on annual packages! Consider this: it is not at all to a package producer's benefit to produce bees that winter well in the north. It took us years to achieve good wintering after being cut off from packages. Some may say that we are importing southern stock (Hawaiian stock and Australian stock, and new Zealand stock), and that is true. Nonetheless, the Hawaiian stock is bred for wintering from NWC stock, and with some feedback and selection from wintering zones, and the Aus stock I have had -- for whatever reason -- just happens to be good wintering stock. As for the NZ bees, the nicest thing I can say about any I had (a small sample, granted), other than that I admired their pretty colour, is that they almost all died in their first winter. They are not as popular as the others. All this is not to say that there is not some good wintering stock in the southern US commercial lines, but we recently saw graphically, thanks to Jose, how variable the commercial stock is in tracheal tolerance. We can only guess that wintering capability is equally variable, even in the queens from any one producer! I wonder how much of the loss in the Northeast US this winter was due to southern stock? allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com Retired commercial beekeeper :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::