Christopher Rosevear wrote: >>Unlike the latest Berlin recording, the oboe will NOT be glissandoing >>everything where it is marked as "Naturlaut". (Nor will he be making >>other rude noises, a least, not on purpose!) Tony Duggan responded: >What a pity. The Third Symphony is full of rude noises and woe betide >any conductor who fails to acknowledge them. As to the oboe glissandi >in the fourth movement, they are a performance tradition a lot older than >Claudio Abbado and his new Berlin recording. In the modern era they were >first heard in a performance/broadcast by the Philharmonia Orchestra under >Berthold Goldschmidt in 1960. Since followed by Rattle and Gielen as well >as Abbado. OK so that's some performance tradition for the glissandi -- done also on Wednesday at the Proms by the Concertgebouw under Inbau. But matching the cor anglais written F#-A gliss with the oboe F natural-A gliss is a bear, and neither Berlin nor Concertgebouw really bring it off. I note also that Horenstein has the plaintive sound but not the glissandi, and that indeed the marking in the score is "Wie ein Naturlaut" - like a noise from nature, NOT glissando ... Yes there are all sorts of rude interruptions a la Charles Ives (keck! - cheeky!) where various wind instruments have forte entries amongst piano strings -- there the effect can be achieved as written. Mahler also marks with extraordinary precision the dynamics within each "odd" phrase -- again, I believe the effect can be achieved without doing what he did not write. Maybe we need to consult Messiaen for the bird song effects??? Anyway, I am practising all variants!!!! Christopher Rosevear