Deryk Barker <[log in to unmask]>: >I believe RVW acknowledged using Beethoven 5 as the structural model for >his 4th symphony. Incidentally, although that 4-note theme has sometimes >been mistaken for BACH, it's actually BAHB. Now lets see here. My theory goes that a composer leave unintentionally his deepest obssessions in Freudian circumscription in the music. So Reger loved the old contrapunctial masters and wrote B-A-C-H. Sjostakovitj loved himself and came up with D-Eb-C-H. RVW seemingly was obsessed with babble B-A-H-B. Had Casanova lived today we could perhaps have proven this thesis, had he with a pen in his hand and lined paper at hand came up with a B-A-B-E motif:-) Mats Norrman [log in to unmask]