Matts writes: >But when one listens to (Classical) music on just not Listen, but also mark >a belonging to a certain subculture, and that people CARE about. Amen to that. I've never been convinced that the CM audience is limited because the "general public" is intellectually intimidated, or they have no attention span. I think the CM audience is limited because many men are uncomfortable with what it asks of them. I believe that the arts have suffered because of a sharpening of gender differentiation, residual class antagonism, and rise of the bureaucratic personality. The rise of capitalism and competitive market economics broadly transformed the relationship of men and women to each other. For a variety of reasons, "feminine attributes" such as physical weakness, a delicate sensibility, whimsy, nurturance, emotional volatility, etc. - were used to justify keeping women sedentary and in the home. Conversely, men were rewarded socially and economically for avoiding these attributes and developing opposite or "masculine" ones outside the home. With such sharpening of gender differentiation, it became increasingly difficult to move between roles without fear of opprobrium. (I will explain what's effeminate about CM in a moment.) Preoccupation with masculinity began in the late 1890's in America. Theodore Roosevelt: "The greatest danger that a long period of profound peace and prosperity offers to a nation is that of creating effeminate tendencies in young men." But then JFK gets a little frustrated: "I look forward to a nation which will not be afraid of grace and beauty." Kennedy's words are etched into the north facade of the Kennedy center. If men in general don't fear the Fine Arts, including CM, then why would he say this? And then why do males tolerate pop music? Rap, country, jazz, rock.... While pop music certainly isn't emotionless, I feel that pop differs from CM in the way that it is ritualistic and utilitarian--it has "nation-building" aspects, (fightin', courtin', lovin', mo' money), that are reconcilable with what is proper male comportment. CM is much more emotionally penetrative: you "nurture" a theme with your finger, you ride CM's emotional volatility.... (Notice that melody, music's most expressive element, has no place in rap.) You have to be a sedentary participant with a whimsical demeanor to make it through two hours of music meant for contemplation only. Many of these traits have been designated as feminine--to be avoided at all costs by men. Class antagonism. When an upper class forms and breaks away from the middle class and adopts behaviors and dress not directly in the service nation-building, (hunting, fighting, reproducing--things of an immediate interest to the middle and lower classes), their behavior and dress can sometimes be targets of disdain as well as envy, leading to antagonism between the classes. Complaints about the "voluptuous, sybaritic, effeminate life of the court, chapel, and educational institution" typically served as a vehicle for popular discontent when the gap between classes was particularly wide. Utilitarian music written in the 17th-, 18th-centuries, the era of the court and church composers Bach, Haydn, Vivaldi and Mozart; certainly sound frilly enough, reflecting the tastes of the upper classes that these composers were associated with, as does the looks of these composers. A student of mine once expressed surprise when I pointed the a poster of the be-wigged Bach and mentioned how many children he had. "He gay"--the student exclaimed. Us insiders know that a Mahler tantrum could blow the little knit cap off Eminem's head; yet as CM stations increasingly turn to the benign yet flowery acoustical wall-paper of this one historical period, it's no surprise that it's the one that the general public considers most representative of CM. Isn't funny that it's Vivaldi, and not Mahler, that makes gang bangers run? Class antagonism across the centuries. Bureaucracy and personality: "Why can't I wear my heart on my sleeve?" a fellow list-member asked once upon a time. Bureaucratic organization was introduced to Western Europe slowly over a period of centuries. This type of organization is expected to be universalistic and impartial in the way it makes decisions--a sharp contrast from family-owned businesses, (or countries), that bureaucracies have slowly replaced. Such decision making inevitably has an effect on its members, called the "bureaucratic personality." The bureaucratic personality--methodical, rational, prudent disciplined, unemotional--is reinforced by making promotions and pay contingent on performance. Until recently, beauracracies have been comprised of men, and men and their sons can and have been socialized to internalize these behaviors--behaviors that hardly create an emotional environment that can accommodate the excesses, (or frilly refinement), of a bygone world and its music. John Smyth