John Smyth wrote: >Joel writes regarding Mahler's possible early influences: > >>This makes me wonder if there is a body of such pieces by lesser >>composers of the latter 19th century by which Mahler was influenced, >>or whether he specifically knew those of Schumann. > >I have "heard" Mahler in the expanded orchestrations of Beethoven's late >String Quartets, such as Bernstein's with the VPO on DG. (Also in some >of Schubert's late Quartets). You might want to try these out! No question about that influence...the most famous instance of course, is the connection between the start of the D-major finale of Mahler 3 and the D-flat major slow movement of Beethoven Op. 135..change the key signatures, re-bar the Beethoven into 4-4 and you have instant Mahler...Ages ago, my conducting teacher in Boston, Richard Burgin, also a fine Mahler conductor [concertmaster and associate conductor of the BSO] did Op. 135 or 131 with the full BSO strings--not an uncommon thing in the inter-war period and earlier but unusual in the early 1960s. -Toscanini did an assortment of Beethoven quartet movements, as I recall-and the impetus for Bernstein's Op. 131 was Mitropoulos-he may have used M's material, in fact as a basis. My point was more that perhaps there was a sort of common musical language, rhetoric and layout for the choral/orchestral "ballad" genre [of which virtually no others are known to me except Hugo Wolf's "Der Feuerritter"] into which both Mahler and Schumann might have dipped. Cheers--Joel