Well, at first i intended to stay quiet to this topic, because My try to
discuss the sex/music thing was pretty too much for the folks in these
days. But i suppose i can help here a bit.
Mats Norrman wrote:
>>"Ich liebe dich, mich reizt deine schone Gestalt;
>>Und bist du nicht willig, so brauch ich Gewalt."
>>(I love thee, I'm aroused by thy beautiful form;
Thats great in my opinion!
>>And be thou not willing, I'll take thee by storm.)?
This one is slightly more compromising with the real meaning of the ext,
but a really well put. Anyway, i never would listen to an english version
of the Songs by Rachmaninoff, i listen to them in Russian language. I then
really understand nothing, but the musical content. But gor that i have
the CD-inlay nearby, to be informed about the meaning. So i dont lose
neither the musical content, nor the meaning. Listening to a translated
version, you lose EVERYTHING. you then listen to something nice, also
genious, but it is normally far beyond that what i would call "the real
>First of all it is a nice translation (I assume I am saying that to the
>right person and the real reason he posted is he wanted to hear that ;-)
I adree, it is really nice.
>beginning with "My dearest love,...", this doesn't need to be an expression
That is exactly the point, IMHO. Missing the context means missing the
>What you say reminds me about why Beethovens 9th is said to illustrate a
I would be curious which person writes such a screaming bullshit. He
obviously knows nothing about Beethoven.
> "Wer ein holdes Weib errungen..."
> ("He who captures a lovely woman...")
This translation is really wrong.
If you capture something, you grab it, no matter if this thing or this
person has an own will.
"errungen" comes from "Ringen", which means "to struggle for something",
to fight for something, but in this case in a really noble way.
So, the more acceptable meaning would be:
"He who won a [lovely, charming, gracious, respectable] [woman, lady]...."
The words in brackets are all not really fitting, but the real meaning will
be found BETWEEN the words. Something like a mixture.
>It is just never said that it is the body that shall be captured and not
>the soul. Though it could sound like a "code".
The complete and plain meaning could easily be found in a correct
translation of the "Ode an die Freude" "Ode to joy" by Schiller.
Normally anyone interested in music should know, that the Ode to joy is
dealing with the utopia, that all human beeings are united in a whole gib
family. The "Ode" deals about winning heroes, about the final GOOD. The
deliverance from any evil.
How the hell is some pure spirit silly enough to associate this inscenation
with a RAPE?
Giving the "Ode of joy" soch a stupid reading, there is only one person
beeing raped: Beethoven.
P.S. I listened to Beethovens 9th the last time during millennium
Sylvester Celebration at the "column of victory" in Berlin, with my lovely
Lady in my arms, and even if i had my problems with the russian accent of
the choir, it was not only me who felt quite exactly what he was singing