LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.0

Help for CLASSICAL Archives


CLASSICAL Archives

CLASSICAL Archives


CLASSICAL@COMMUNITY.LSOFT.COM


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

CLASSICAL Home

CLASSICAL Home

CLASSICAL  March 2000

CLASSICAL March 2000

Subject:

Re: Repeats

From:

Jocelyn Wang <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 16 Mar 2000 22:34:48 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (79 lines)

Felix Delbruck <[log in to unmask]> writes:

>But for reasons which I set out earlier, it does look to me as if the
>exposition repeat was for him a conventional matter.

This is complete speculation on your part.  Moreover, the very nature of
genius carries with it unconventional thinking.

>Now that wouldn't matter much, if not for the fact that his whole style
>changes radically in some of his late works - they become broader, more
>Romantic, less classical, more discursive, the contrasts are less marked -
>and in some cases that seems to me to pull the rug out from under the
>repeat, so to speak.  That doesn't mean Schubert is stupid - it merely
>says that formal coventions sometimes persist beyond their practical use.

Such an evolution in artistry would, by necessity, cause the composer to be
cognizant of the nature of the elements of his works that were evolving, as
well as those elements (such as repeats) that he would carry with him from
his older style to his newer one.  Thus, the elements that remained would
remain out of the composer's choice.  The fact that he did choose shows
that he gave it sufficient thought for his satisfaction.  Since he is the
composer, his satisfaction is the best indicator of the the form the piece
should take.

>In that new style, where proportions are less clear,

Perhaps to you.

>...where psychological concerns seem more important than structural ones,
>the presence or absence of the repeat seems to make *less of a difference*.

Not to Schubert, since he put them in.

>That's all I am trying to argue - people like Jocelyn seem to think that
>omitting it would kill the piece in each and every case, but as far as I
>can see that is question-begging.

Not at all, since doing anything in outright defiance of the composer's
instructions would do that, whether it's a repeat or something else.

>You did so by pointing to the lead-in back to the beginning, and that
>is certainly arguable.  But since in this case the lead-in may well be
>prompted by the prior 'necessity' for the repeat rather than be an end
>in itself

Again, this is speculation on your part, without foundation for a
conclusion.  What is not speculation is what Schubert wrote.

>If, say, Schubert had included the repeats in only some works, like
>Beethoven, then that would be evidence that they had particular
>significance in the scheme of those works, and we would have to make
>sense of them whether we like them or not

No, because Schubert had no greater influence than Beethoven.  He
understandably came to utterly revere him.  Given that Beethoven did not
put the repeat signs into a number of works of which Schubert must surely
have been cognizant (Op. 95 Quartet and (th Symphony, 1st movement, to
name a couple) that the repeat sign did not need to be a foregone
conclusion-- assuming he needed Beethoven to point that out to him.

>>>what justifies the repeat (other than the fact that Schubert wrote it!)?
>>
>>What other justification is necessary? Once we feel free to second
>>guess the composer's justification for any aesthetic decision, how do we
>>decide how much second guessing is legitimate and how much intrudes on the
>>composer's prerogative as the composer?
>
>I don't know.  I don't care, either, as long as the second-guessing is
>informed and responsible, rather than merely whim-based.

Well, since you don't care, there's not much else to talk about with you
on this.  And how does one distinguish? The performer is not capable of
having as intimate a relationship with the piece as the composer.  It is
the performer's responsibility to realize this and make the composer's
intent work.

-Jocelyn Wang
Culver Chamber Music Series
Come see our web page: www.bigfoot.com/~CulverMusic

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003
December 2002
November 2002
October 2002
September 2002
August 2002
July 2002
June 2002
May 2002
April 2002
March 2002
February 2002
January 2002
December 2001
November 2001
October 2001
September 2001
August 2001
July 2001
June 2001
May 2001
April 2001
March 2001
January 2001
December 2000
November 2000
October 2000
September 2000
August 2000
July 2000
June 2000
May 2000
April 2000
March 2000
February 2000
January 2000
December 1999
November 1999
October 1999
September 1999
August 1999
July 1999
June 1999
May 1999
April 1999
March 1999
February 1999
January 1999
July 1997

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



COMMUNITY.LSOFT.COM

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager