What you have written has got me thinking about childbirth education  
classes.  In my experience, young women who never go to a prenatal  
class often just get on and "do it" when it comes to labour.  Maybe  
knowing too much really does hinder the process.

and on babies who don't latch....  My baby did not latch for 36 hours  
following an unmedicated home birth.  We got off to a very slow start  
and had supply issues for probably many little reasons.  I do think  
there is some truth in the idea that in the past, babies who didn't  
latch got formula fed and that was that.

An other interesting note about babies who didn't latch from my family  
tree.  My great great grandmother lived in Norway.  My father found  
some of the letters she wrote to her son, my great grand father and  
had them translated.  In one of them she wrote of the babies she had  
had who had died and that she was not able to breastfeed them, while  
her surviving children had been breastfed.  We will never know if  
those babies had not been able to latch or the reason why they  
couldn't breastfeed but I think it was an interesting fact to learn.

So, maybe we do teach too much or meddle too much but I expect that  
there always have been babies who can't figure out how to breastfeed.

Cordelia Merritt  RN BSN IBCLC


On Feb 18, 2009, at 10:50 AM, LACTNET automatic digest system wrote:

> Subject: learning from our past (long)
>
> I asked how we oldsters learned to breastfeed because I figured I'd  
> get =
> the answers I did.  I just didn't expect 18 pages of them!
>
> But here's the gist of what we said, with my own thoughts:
>
> 1)  A generation ago, our babies just did it.  Not one of these  
> stories =
> is about a baby who failed to take the breast, or about a mother who  
> had =
> to learn special skills in order for her baby to succeed, or about a =
> mother who knew much of anything at all!  If anyone remembers  
> hearing =
> more than one or two stories of non-latching babies from that era, =
> please speak up; *I* haven't heard them. (I've now met one person  
> who =
> has heard them; have others of you?)  Sore nipples yes, low supply  
> yes, =
> poor management over and over.  But from all the gray-hair stories  
> I've =
> heard over the years, I've heard an **extremely** small handful of  
> "my =
> baby never latched" stories... until later in the 1980s. =20
>
> My thoughts:  Something has changed.  The only two things I can  
> think of =
> are the way mothers are taught and the ubiquitousness and type of  
> birth =
> drugs.  Most of us oldsters had way more separation than mothers  
> today =
> have, yet breastfeeding worked for us, and worked immediately.   
> Maybe we =
> need to stop making separations such a focus of attention, bad as  
> they =
> are, and look more urgently at the births and the help.=20
>
> 2)  A generation ago, the help we got from professionals was almost =
> uniformly detrimental.
>
> My thoughts: Are we certain we're not doing the same thing -  
> squeezing =
> mothers and babies into rules and protocols that have nothing to do  
> with =
> what really works?  We know now that we taught positioning totally =
> terribly in our early days.  We'd probably have been way better off  
> not =
> teaching at all.  Are we sure that that isn't still true?  There's  
> at =
> least one study that indicates that we may be more hindrance than  
> help =
> (Henderson A, Stamp G, Pincombe J.  Postpartum Positioning and =
> Attachment Education for Increasing Breastfeeding: A Randomized  
> Trial.  =
> Birth 2001; 28(4): 236-242).=20
>
> 3)  A generation ago, LLL meetings - or at least the Womanly Art of =
> Breastfeeding - was a common factor in a whole lot of successes, at =
> least in the US. =20
>
> My thoughts: If you haven't made a donation to LLL in a while, it  
> sure =
> would be welcomed!  So would your presence at meetings, and your  
> earnest =
> urging that patients and clients attend.  If we all disappeared and  
> only =
> LLL remained, most new mothers would be probably be fine.  If LLL =
> disappears and only we remain, I'm not so sure.
>
> 4)  A generation ago, Karen Pryor's book was the other near- 
> essential. =20
>
> My thoughts: It couldn't have been for the positioning information:  =
> "Probably the nurse will help you get comfotable and get the first =
> feeding started.  If not, you can manage by yourself.  You can nurse =
> sitting up or lying down.  If you are sitting, don't lean back.   
> Lean =
> forward a little, and rest the baby partly on your lap, like the  
> mothers =
> in the first four plates.  That way the nipple is easier for him to =
> grasp, and your arm won't get tired from holding him.  You can use  
> your =
> free hand to guide the nipple into his mouth."  No, I think what we  
> got =
> from her book was almost entirely attitude and desire.  Same with  
> LLL's =
> Womanly Art of Breastfeeding. =20
>
> 5)  As far as I've seen and heard, a generation ago breastfeeding  
> tended =
> to work.  Some people quit because of truly terrible nipples, many  
> had =
> unnecessary pain that eventually resolved.  But according to the  
> stories =
> I heard back then, it wasn't nipple pain or "failed latch" that  
> ended =
> most breastfeeding (the two things we've focused on for over 20  
> years), =
> it was management.
>
> My thoughts: One of our local Leader Applicants said recently, "My =
> generation doesn't think breastfeeding works."  Have we spent so  
> much =
> time focused on "the latch" that we've screwed up mothers'  
> perception of =
> this very robust behavior?  Have we forgotten how competent babies  
> are, =
> if we give them not one isolated cue ("tickle the lips" or "nose to =
> nipple") but a whole casual bundle of them as the mother who leans =
> comfortably back and just holds her baby seems to do?  The word =
> "position" became a verb - something the mother did *to* the baby -  
> in =
> the early 1980s, and from then on it seems it was all about the =
> properly-instructed mother manipulating the baby.
>
> Tina Smillie and now Suzanne Colson (www.biologicalnurturing.com)  
> are =
> handing control back to the mothers and babies, and even medicated =
> babies seem to be doing pretty well as a result.  I'm feeling =
> embarrassed by my well-meant but incredibly intrusive efforts of the =
> past 25 years!
>
> Diane Wiessinger, MS, IBCLC, LLLL  Ithaca, NY  USA


             ***********************************************

Archives: http://community.lsoft.com/archives/LACTNET.html
To reach list owners: [log in to unmask]
Mail all list management commands to: [log in to unmask]
COMMANDS:
1. To temporarily stop your subscription write in the body of an email: set lactnet nomail
2. To start it again: set lactnet mail
3. To unsubscribe: unsubscribe lactnet
4. To get a comprehensive list of rules and directions: get lactnet welcome