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Jonah - re: your last comment about comparing GB to JFK - I am
reminded of the Benson/Quayle debate: "Sir, you are no Jack Kennedy!"
There is a difference between being a visionary and having
hallucinations :-)
Beryl

>ISEN-ASTC-L is a service of the Association of Science-Technology Centers
>Incorporated, a worldwide network of science museums and related institutions.
>*****************************************************************************
>
>A few more thoughts on this - comforting, as outer space is probably
>warmer than where I am now.
>
>On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:46:53 -0600 "Shelly Goglick"
><[log in to unmask]> writes:
>>  One thing that Bush didn't say in his speech that he should have was
>>  that for every $1 NASA receives, $7 gets returned to the American
>>  public.
>
>I'm never sure exactly what stats like this mean, in terms of "getting
>returned to the public". (Where's my $7?!?) But your point is well taken
>space exploration leads to all kinds of new technology advances, new
>useful products and such. I know NASA only uses up a tiny fraction of our
>tax dollars, and it's cash I'm willing to spend (don't get me started on
>the stuff it's way better than!) I just wonder where the scientific
>impetus behind this new "vision thing" is.
>
>And for that matter, there are many benefits to space travel that have no
>easy $benefit$, but should in no way be ignored: the accumulation of
>knowledge. The wonder and inspiration that this exploration inspires. As
>Tom Hanks once said, getting to the moon took the work of a lot of
>people, dedicating to this goal, working together to overcome a lot of
>serious problems --- imagine if we could get so many people that
>committed to cooperation on solving some of our more earth bound
>problems.
>
>The part I'm questioning is: aren't those same benefits available with
>non-manned exploration, too? Not that it has to be a total either/or, not
>that we should give up on sending people into space entirely... but the
>robotic option seems a lot more efficient.
>
>One of the things that I find amazing about astronauts is that humans are
>in no way evolved to survive in space, yet there they go. In a way,
>they're flipping the bird to human limitations. Now THAT'S inspiring! But
>I still recognize that there's only so far you can push your limits
>before Nature simply doesn't budge. And I'm not sure the moon/Mars colony
>idea isn't trying to go beyond that un-budge point.
>
>>  As for the Moons resources and launching from the moon, the
>>  potential is unlimited.  We know there are many ore resources
>>  available on the lunar surface that can be used to make fuel or
>>  materials.
>
>No offense, but this still seems a little science fiction-like to me. How
>much of that ore is economically recoverable? Even if there's lots of
>iron and titanium on the lunar surface, where's the infrastructure to
>mine it? And refine it into useable material? And craft said material
>into equipment? And....
>
>>  Because the gravity on the lunar surface is 1/6 of the
>>  earths, it will be a lot cheaper to launch rockets to the further
>>  reaches of space.
>
>OK, please do correct me if my physics/engineering knowledge of this is
>way off base, but... I know the moon has less gravity (heck, no air means
>less drag on a launched rocket, too). But I was under the impression that
>getting a rocket to reach escape velocity and get into space isn't the
>difficulty with getting to Mars. We can get stuff to leave earth just
>fine, and after a few hundred miles, the earth having greater gravity
>than the moon makes no difference.
>
>The problem is that the trip takes what, 3 or 4 years? Each way! I can't
>see how having a slightly easier launch on half of the trip makes all
>that much difference.
>
>As for the NPR kids who think we should move to Mars once earth is too
>poluted to live on: well, that may reflect a lot of cynicism or crass
>consumerism by the kids. Or it may reflect their fears about the state of
>things. I wonder if in the 60's, kids thought we should go to the moon
>because they were afraid we'd need a new place to live once the earth was
>destroyed by nuclear war.
>
>It's true, I bet folks poo-poohed JFK when he said we should to the moon
>(as surely people scoffed at the Wright Brothers and a lot of others).
>And maybe in 20 years when New Earth colony is thriving on the Sea of
>Tranquility, someone will dig my doubting listserve post out of some
>digital archive and place me in the pantheon with that 19th century
>patent office guy who said there was nothing left to be invented. (Oh, I
>can only hope!) But on the other hand, that argument could be used to
>justify darn near anything. "What, you think I can't invent a free energy
>machine? People like you said we'd never get to the moon!")
>
>Thank you for thoughtful input, as always, listeservers.
>
>Jonah Cohen
>Outreach & Public Programs Manager
>Science Center of Connecticut
>
>BUSH: We go into space for the same reason that humans have always
>explored uncharted lands and crossed great oceans.
>STEWART: That reason? Rapacious greed.
>                 -The Daily Show with Jon Stewart
>
>
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--
Beryl Rosenthal, Ph.D.
Director of Exhibitions and Public Programs
MIT Museum
265 Massachusetts Ave.
Cambridge, MA  02139
Tel: 617-452-2111
Fax: 617-253-8994
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