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Try telling the juvenille mockingbird, whom I spent the first half of the
summer listening to deep in the night, that his amourous vocalizations
weren't song.

On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 11:42 AM, Eric Siegel <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

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> Once John Cage enters the argument, all bets are off.  Or at least if you
> see the numbers 4'33 the discussion will run off the rails.  I love his
> compositions, his ideas of chance, and also his wonderful conception that
> if you put a bracket around a period of time (4'33) it becomes music.   It
> is very science museum-ish, encouraging people to open ended exploration.
>
> Eric
>
> On Aug 17, 2012, at 12:06 PM, James Bell <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > ISEN-ASTC-L is a service of the Association of Science-Technology Centers
> > Incorporated, a worldwide network of science museums and related
> institutions.
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> > Alan, Eric, All,
> >
> > May I add to the mix John Cage's assertion that music is a succession of
> sounds and the composer the "organizer of sounds." (Do birds 'organize'
> their vocalizations? I'd say so.)
> > Traditionally, music has been thought of as a communication of feelings,
> but Cage argues that all sounds have this potential for conveying feeling
> in the mechanical and electronic sense. As he puts it in the essay "History
> of Experimental Music in the United States": "Debussy said quite some time
> ago, 'Any sounds in any combination and in any succession are henceforth
> free to be used in a musical continuity.'"
> >
> > Jamie
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Informal Science Education Network [mailto:
> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Alan Friedman
> > Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 10:51 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Another One Bites the Dust
> >
> > ISEN-ASTC-L is a service of the Association of Science-Technology
> Centers Incorporated, a worldwide network of science museums and related
> institutions.
> >
> *****************************************************************************
> >
> > Loved Eric's rebuttal. I'd like to offer another rebuttal, from a
> different direction:  the logic of the marketplace and the lexicon.
> >
> > What is music isn't only a possible scientific question, or even only a
> musicological question.  Music is what people define as music by being
> willing to pay for it under the label of music.  Now if you pay good money
> to go to a concert containing Respighi's hugely popular "The Pines of
> Rome," you get to hear a recorded nightingale as a central part of the
> music, some might say as the featured part.  So the nightingale's
> vocalization is regarded as music in the marketplace.  QED.
> >
> > Plus a great deal of what is universally recognized as music is inspired
> by, and makes use of, sound phrases from birds, as diverse as Stavinsky's
> Le chant du rossingol (the Song of the Nightingale) to Maria Schneider's
> grammy-winning big band jazz compositions.  I happen to know and love
> Maria's work because she is a fellow member of the administrative board of
> the Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology.  She calls those sounds "bird
> songs."  QED again.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Alan
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > Alan J. Friedman, Ph.D.
> > Consultant for Museum Development and Science Communication
> > 29 West 10th Street
> > New York, New York 10011 USA
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> >
> > a member of The Museum Group
> > www.museumgroup.com <http://www.museumgroup.com/>
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >
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