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Incorporated, a worldwide network of science museums and related institutions.
*****************************************************************************

Charlie;

Fat chance of getting to evaluation studies in that place! I bet you'd  
have a line from here to there of evaluators who would give their eye  
teeth or first born (not literally) to do studies in there.

Martin
On Nov 19, 2009, at 10:55 AM, Charlie Carlson wrote:

> ISEN-ASTC-L is a service of the Association of Science-Technology  
> Centers
> Incorporated, a worldwide network of science museums and related  
> institutions.
> *****************************************************************************
>
> Creationists for whatever reason have a belief system that's not  
> taking into account "evidence," we all do to some more or less  
> extent.  It's not bad, it's part of being human.  It's not about the  
> science, people that accept creation believes are doing so for other  
> reasons unrelated to science and evidence based reasoning.
>
> I agree that ridiculing them isn't the way to go––I was just being  
> cheeky.
>
> The best thing to do is to tell an interesting story of discovery,  
> an adventure, with apprehensible practical benefits, be they social,  
> economic or medical.  Ideally, it's not movies, easily manipulated  
> computer games, and authority-speak, but something inviting that's  
> self-evident, and can be seen and experienced viscerally.  That's  
> typically hard to do.  Ultimately, people will make their choices.
>
> There is no argument or prepared statement that's going to settle  
> the matter.  You can engage believers on the topic directly but that  
> will not change them.  It's about something else.  You can agree to  
> disagree.
>
> Now having written this, it seems to me like the Creationist Museum  
> is the perfect place to study unscientific belief systems in the  
> face of rationality and evidence.  It could be a test bed for many,  
> many evaluation studies.
>
> Just for clarification,
> Charlie
> On Nov 19, 2009, at 6:08 AM, Martin Weiss wrote:
>
>> ISEN-ASTC-L is a service of the Association of Science-Technology  
>> Centers
>> Incorporated, a worldwide network of science museums and related  
>> institutions.
>> *****************************************************************************
>>
>> My experience suggests that there is no common ground for  
>> discussion with most creationists. We are taking a position that we  
>> are a science museum and present scientically verified or  
>> verifiable information about the natural world in words to that  
>> effect. We do not encourage debate as there cannot be a debate due  
>> a lack of common understanding. That being said I personally have  
>> engaged in heated discussions, no arguments with hard core  
>> creationists to great emotional pleasure but significantly lower  
>> intellectual pleasure. But not with museum visitors. Because of the  
>> absence of common ground many scientists have disengaged from  
>> debate with creationists.
>>
>> Martin
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone while hurtling on the Number
>> 7 IRT train . . .
>>
>> On Nov 18, 2009, at 10:24 PM, Greg Lester <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>> ISEN-ASTC-L is a service of the Association of Science-Technology  
>>> Centers
>>> Incorporated, a worldwide network of science museums and related  
>>> institutions.
>>> *****************************************************************************
>>>
>>>
>>> Today, the National Center for Science Education tweeted this link  
>>> from Skeptic magazine. It is a PDF, sorry, but it is good guide  
>>> for answering common creationist claims: http://bit.ly/xJ123?r=td
>>>
>>> As its subtitle promises, it contains:
>>> 25 Answers To Classic Creationist Arguments
>>> 10 Answers To Intelligent Design Creationist Arguments
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Greg Lester
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>
> Charles Carlson
> Senior Scientist
> exploratorium
> 3601 Lyon St.
> San Francisco, CA 94123
> [log in to unmask]
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>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
> ***********************************************************************
> For information about the Association of Science-Technology Centers  
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>
> Check out the latest case studies and reviews on ExhibitFiles at www.exhibitfiles.org 
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