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Based on our recent experiences with spring groups, I would concur with
that number, though I had to do the math because at first I thought 20
was too big.  I wonder if this is a fundamental constant of the universe
(or at least of the science center)?

I will say, however, that there are a few groups for whom the
denominator is much larger and that, for those few outliers, the issue
is clearly the expectations established by the teacher for both students
and chaperones.  I think the comments about engagement are right on -
good class management is greatly aided by engaging lessons and even
teachers with good management skills might have trouble with classes in
a setting that was not engaging.   Conversely, however, there are
classes that struggle to appropriately use even the most engaging of
exhibits.  My limited observation of these classes suggests that they
may be ones where the teacher has not created any culture of real
engagement or responsibility and the kids, as a result, are not prepared
to understand that there is a value to engaging.  That such classrooms
are often marked by authoritarian discipline (since there's nothing else
supporting the keeping of order), simply compounds the problem once kids
are "free" (of the teacher's direct supervision).

Dave

David L. Smith, Ph.D.
Director of Professional Development
Da Vinci Discovery Center, Allentown, PA 
http://www.davinci-center.org
"Who will pick up where Leonardo left off?"



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Informal Science Education Network 
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Glen Moore
> Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 4:28 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: school groups (and chaperones) behaving badly
> 
> 
> ISEN-ASTC-L is a service of the Association of 
> Science-Technology Centers Incorporated, a worldwide network 
> of science museums and related institutions.
> **************************************************************
> ***************
> 
> Joe
> 
> Certainly the dynamic changes as the 'capacity' is reached. 
> Indeed this defines the real capacity. 
> 
> In our centre chaos set in around 1/20 sq ft.
> 
> Regards
> Glen
> 
> 
> ---- Original message ----
> >Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 16:06:23 -0700
> >From: Joe Ruggiero <[log in to unmask]>
> >Subject: Re: school groups (and chaperones) behaving badly  
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Cc: [log in to unmask]
> <snip>
> >   I would bet - with some exceptions - that many of
> >   the problems we see with school group visits happens
> >   when the museum is approaching its visitor capacity
> >   - which might be significantly less than the maximum
> >   occupancy posted on the wall by the building
> >   department.
> 
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