ISEN-ASTC-L is a service of the Association of Science-Technology Centers
Incorporated, a worldwide network of science museums and related institutions.
*****************************************************************************

I hadn't thought of it as a question of buying in?  There will always be a need for metrics and comparisons, whether we like it or not--we continuously do it all the time through out every aspect of our lives; it's human universe aether.  

After looking at the PISA questions and getting a better feel for the type of test questions, I feel better about the overall process.  The questions were in fact much more representative of probing for reasoning, etc. and much better than the bubble tests I so vividly remember.  Again it's looking at large samples, as long as it's even, it's even.  In this case SES emerges as consistent measurable variable which significantly affects performance and biases scoring, and it's cross cultural and world wide (at least as wide as PISA).
C
On Mar 22, 2013, at 7:51 AM, Chuck Howarth <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> ISEN-ASTC-L is a service of the Association of Science-Technology Centers
> Incorporated, a worldwide network of science museums and related institutions.
> *****************************************************************************
> 
> Hey, guys, before we get too worked up about PISA it seems to me we need to answer a more fundamental question:  does PISA measure anything worth measuring?
> 
> We have discussed on this listserv the negative impacts of No Child Left Behind and its incessant focus on standardized testing.  No Child emphasizes rote learning to the exclusion of  the many skills that we as museum educators hold dear:  innovation, art, making, creative thinking.  At best, No Child tests for linguistic and mathematical skills.  Howard Gardner's other intelligences are nowhere to be found.  
> 
> The problems with No Child are problems with standardized testing in general.  Only those skills that lend themselves to multiple choice questioning make it onto the tests.  Everything else is devalued as a result.  (I heard somewhere that SAT tests are very good at predicting one thing:  students' later success at taking GRE tests.)
> 
> So I ask:  do we really want to buy into the idea that PISA measures something important about differences in education across cultures?  As we have seen with No Child, it's a slippery slope.
> 
> 
> On Mar 21, 2013, at 5:04 AM, Sarah Gruber wrote:
> 
>> ISEN-ASTC-L is a service of the Association of Science-Technology Centers
>> Incorporated, a worldwide network of science museums and related institutions.
>> *****************************************************************************
>> 
>> Well put. It is important that we understand what the numbers represent (i.e., the presence in the US/US sample of more disadvantaged students, or students with unmet educational needs, than in those countries "below" which we fall on the scale). But that clarification doesn't change reality. 
>> 
>> The representative sample REPRESENTS the student population we want/need to educate. Sort some of them out and it no longer does so. 
>> 
>> Sarah 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mar 20, 2013, at 11:03 AM, Alan Friedman <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> 
>>> ISEN-ASTC-L is a service of the Association of Science-Technology Centers
>>> Incorporated, a worldwide network of science museums and related institutions.
>>> *****************************************************************************
>>> 
>>> Before we start rejoicing at the dramatic improvement in US student
>>> performance rankings as calculated by Stanford researchers, consider
>>> carefully what the researchers have done.  They revised the PISA data so
>>> that "differences in countries' social class compositions are adequately
>>> taken into account."  I think everyone agrees that socio-economic
>>> disadvantage is strongly correlated with lower performance on all the
>>> major assessments.  The US has a larger percentage of students with lower
>>> socio-economic status than many developed countries.  So the researchers
>>> have "taken into account" this sad situation by adjusting the scores as if
>>> this situation were not true.  And as a result of this adjustment, the US
>>> rank rises.
>>> 
>>> If only the disproportionately greater share of US students in
>>> disadvantaged social classes could be fixed so easily.  The hard way would
>>> be to reduce the percentage of the disadvantaged students, for example by
>>> effective, large-scale programs to reduce poverty and discrimination.
>>> 
>>> PISA, TIMSS, and NAEP are all designed to take representative samples of
>>> the population is it is, rather than how we would like it to be or as it
>>> would be if we leveled out the differences between populations.  The
>>> Stanford researchers have done a valuable service by pointing out when our
>>> disadvantaged populations outperform other disadvantaged populations, and
>>> that we have in fact lowered performance gaps in many (but not all)
>>> instances.  But whether their calculated re-scoring of the PISA test
>>> produces a more accurate and useful ranking is a matter of taste, rather
>>> than of repairing errors in the PISA results.
>>> 
>>> Alan
>>> ________________________________________
>>> Alan J. Friedman, Ph.D.
>>> Consultant for Museum Development and Science Communication
>>> 29 West 10th Street
>>> New York, New York 10011 USA
>>> T  +1 917 882-6671
>>> E   [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>> W www.FriedmanConsults.com <http://www.friedmanconsults.com/>
>>> 
>>> a member of The Museum Group
>>> www.museumgroup.com <http://www.museumgroup.com/>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> ***********************************************************************



Charles Carlson
Senior Scientist | Teacher Institute

http://blogs.exploratorium.edu/whyintercept/
Twitter: @charliec53
email: [log in to unmask] 
Tel:   415-528-4319
Fax:  415-885-6011
exploratorium.edu
facebook.com/exploratorium twitter.com/exploratorium
The Embarcadero, Piers15 & 17
S.F., CA 94111





***********************************************************************
For information about the Association of Science-Technology Centers and the Informal Science Education Network please visit www.astc.org.

Check out the latest case studies and reviews on ExhibitFiles at www.exhibitfiles.org.

The ISEN-ASTC-L email list is powered by LISTSERVR software from L-Soft. To learn more, visit
http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html.

To remove your e-mail address from the ISEN-ASTC-L list, send the
message  SIGNOFF ISEN-ASTC-L in the BODY of a message to
[log in to unmask]