Post 1850, many kettles were thin, spun metal buckets (thin being
relative to size of the bucket/kettle) as opposed to hammered.
Mike
On 9/9/2013 11:01 AM, Branstner, Mark C wrote:
> Thanks Misty!
>
> So ... It is your position that "copper kettles" and "brass kettles" would
> essentially follow the same physical form, I.e., thin, hand-hammered or
> perhaps machine-hammered metal - probably with some sort of riveted, lug
> handle. The only real difference would be the physical composition of the
> metal, reddish copper or yellowish brass.
>
> Basically, I should throw out my mental picture of heavy, cast brass
> kettles?
>
> Mark
>
> ___________________________________
>
> Mark C. Branstner, RPA, AARP
> Senior Historical Archaeologist
>
> Illinois State Archaeological Survey
> Prairie Research Institute
> University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
> 209 Nuclear Physics Lab, MC-571
> 23 East Stadium Drive
> Champaign, IL 61820
>
> Phone: 217.244.0892
> Fax: 217.244.7458
> Cell: 217.549.6990
> [log in to unmask]
>
> "The difference between genius and idiocy? Genius has its limits." --
> Albert Einstein
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 9/9/13 9:53 AM, "Misty Jackson" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Mark,
>>
>> Copper kettles were made of copper, and brass kettles were made of brass,
>> generally speaking. Copper was the common material prior to the 18th c.,
>> but given that it was more expensive, zinc was added more commonly in the
>> 18th c. to reduce the cost, thus making brass. Depending on how much zinc
>> you add, the material can still look very copper-like, which was probably
>> something traders wanted to retain so their clients would buy it.
>> Therefore you canıt necessarily tell by looking whether you have pure
>> copper kettles (reddish) or one that looks that way but had some zinc
>> added to make it less expensive. When more zinc is added, then you
>> achieve the gold appearance associated with brass. The Montreal merchants
>> sometimes specified whether they were selling copper or brass kettles.
>> They may not have known themselves whether the copper-looking ones had
>> some zinc in them, though the price may have been an indicator.
>>
>> So there is a shift over time in what to expect in material, rather than
>> any shift in lug form being linked with the material. The square ³dog
>> eared² French lugs show up in the 17th and 18th c. and arenıt linked
>> specifically with true copper vs. copper-looking vs. brass. Holland
>> kettles, if made in England (in the 18th c. England had Dutch tradesmen
>> come over to make kettles for them) also have the same issue since the
>> lugs tend to be iron but would have experienced the same general shift
>> through time in the material used for the body. The bodies of the older
>> kettles (16th c., early 17th c.?) from what Iıve observed are often
>> rounded, but I saw a straight sided, flat bottomed one in a museum in The
>> Netherlands, too. The designs of the bodies appeared to be linked to time
>> period and nationality, rather than materials, too.
>>
>> You can use a scratch test, though some may frown on this. I tried it on
>> a scrap that looked like copper. The scratch reveals golden color if the
>> material is actually brass.
>>
>> I covered this in my dissertaion, specifically in one of the appendices
>> under the entry for kettles. Itıs titled :CLASSIFICATIONS BY HISTORICAL
>> ARCHAEOLOGISTS AND EIGHTEENTH CENTURY MONTREAL MERCHANTS AND MILITARY
>> PERSONNEL IN NEW FRANCE: EMIC AND ETIC APPROACHES. And of course you can
>> look at the bib for my sources.
>>
>> Misty
>>
>>
>> Misty Jackson, Ph.D., RPA
>> Arbre Croche Cultural Resources
>> 214 South Main Street
>> Leslie, Michigan 49251
>>
>>
>> On Sep 9, 2013, at 10:08 AM, Branstner, Mark C wrote:
>>
>>> Ok, question of the day People refer in a very off-hand way about
>>> copper kettles or brass kettles, and use the terms interchangeably
>>>
>>> But is there is fact a difference? I understand copper pots made of
>>> very thin copper stock with riveted bail lugs that were often
>>> secondarily cut-up for tinkling cones, etc.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, when I think of brass kettles, I think of something
>>> heavier, probably cast, and certainly less portable from a weight
>>> perspective.
>>>
>>> So Are copper kettles different than brass kettles, or are they
>>> essentially identical but made different materials, or are some folks
>>> just incorrectly describing copper kettles as being made of brass?
>>>
>>> Probably all of the above, but I would love to hear some opinions, or
>>> handy links.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>
>>> mark
>>>
>>> ___________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> Mark C. Branstner, RPA, AARP
>>>
>>> Senior Historical Archaeologist
>>>
>>>
>>> Illinois State Archaeological Survey
>>>
>>> Prairie Research Institute
>>>
>>> University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
>>>
>>> 209 Nuclear Physics Lab, MC-571
>>>
>>> 23 East Stadium Drive
>>>
>>> Champaign, IL 61820
>>>
>>>
>>> Phone: 217.244.0892
>>>
>>> Fax: 217.244.7458
>>>
>>> Cell: 217.549.6990
>>>
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>>
>>> "The difference between genius and idiocy? Genius has its limits." --
>>> Albert Einstein
>>>
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