Thomas Wulf wrote:

>biology and linguistics have btw.  found that all thoughts are also
>triggering the larynx and are running there in parallel, albeit mute.
>no way to think without our larynx.

So people without a larynx can't think, then?  I doubt that very much
indeed, and would like to see the actual research that supports this
conclusion.

>so thoughts are bound to language.

So those without a language can't think?  Unless we're going to go all
hand-wavy about what constitutes a language, or anthropocentric about
what constitutes thinking, I'm happy to present sharks, alligators,
eagles, gibbons, dogs and horses as my initial counter-examples.

>But even when listening to 'pure abstract' composers, like Bach, I don't
>think that they evoke thought; their music, like all music will lead our
>brain along the time axis.  but I wouldn't want to call the result
>'thoughts'.  'Feelings', yes, even 'ideas', sometimes, but 'thoughts',
>no I don't think so.

Now I'm confused; you think 'ideas' are distinct from, and don't depend
on, 'thoughts'?  I don't see how I can have a idea without thinking,
since all my ideas are in my brain, and thinking is what my brain does
when it's operating my consciousness.

I suspect a debate about the nomenclature of cogitation is off-topic for
this list, though.:-)

>Frank Wales wrote:
>> This sounds like the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, the notion that what we can
>> think about is limited by the languages we have learned.
>>
>> This has always seemed obviously bogus to me..
>
>Well, our thoughts are limited by our language, but this limitation is
>not absolute.

So, our thoughts are limited by language, except when they're not.  I
don't consider that a limitation, myself.  Perhaps a constraint, or a
habit, or an elastic boundary.

>> I think music is the interaction of two things: the natural rhythmic and
>> periodic activities that are at the heart of us as living creatures, and
>> that permeate biological life generally; and our inherent pattern-
>> matching skills that provide the basis for our intelligence.
>
>well put, I trust I may quote you on another board?  (where Mehldau and
>Metheny fans find themselves in wonder about head over heart in music)

Please do.

Frank Wales [[log in to unmask]]