James Zehm ([log in to unmask]) wrote:

>Aaron Rabushka <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>>Yes, Franck's d-minor symphony is often noted for it's cyclic form
>>wherein themes from the first two movements return in the third. [...]
>>With Mahler and Schumann one even finds material from one symphony quoted
>>in another.
>
>And in the second movement "Titan" of his first symphony with the
>same name ...

Aaaargh! James, you just hit a hot button.

Mahler's 1st should only be referred to as Titan when referring to the
1893 (Weimar) revision, which is not the version usually performed (that's
from 1898/9).  The orchestration is different and there are five movements.
None of which are called Titan.

>... Mahler quotes the Scherzo from Hans Rott's 1880 Symphony.  Far to
>much and clearly not to be a random.

And I'm even more confused because the additional movement which Mahler
excised from his final revision was second.  So I'm not sure if we're
arguing over a typo, you are referring to 1893 and it's second movement,
Blumine, or whether you're talking about the second movement from the
1898/9 revision, which was originally third.

BTW, is there any evidence that mahler had seen the score of Rott's
symphony before about 1900? I've misplaced my copy of the Hyperion Rott
CD, but my memory is that Mahler's remark about the two of them springing
from the same soil was made after examing the score at around that time,
and that he'd been lent the score by someone whose name completely escapes
me.

Anyone with access to accurate info?

Deryk Barker
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